Locuming -general advice please

Re: Locuming -general advice please

listhestar — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 09:57:35 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]depends why the week is 50-60 hours[/quote]

Luckily I dont have OOH but that's due to some practice evening commintments elswhere leaving a late sat night finish. Most days are 11-12hr days due to extras being booked in last thing, having not had time in the day to ring people etc. Getting home after 8pm every night just lives very little time for anything else including interacting with family life.

Ah well c'est la vie

Re: Locuming -general advice please

listhestar — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 09:49:26 GMT

Hi Tim

Thanks for the advice. It's a minefield out there with tax etc. I am more midlands I am afraid!

Re: Locuming -general advice please

listhestar — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 09:47:56 GMT

[quote user="Tim Newton"]Many HMRC inspectors are getting very sticky about locum vets being regarded as self employed,[/quote]

thanks for the good advise. Nothing worse than an angry HMRC man so I've heard

Re: Locuming -general advice please

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:07:25 GMT

Weeelllllll............... it depends why the week is 50-60 hours. Is it always? Is it because of a run of bad out of hours duties? Is it really "impacting on" family life or actually just interacting with family life?

Re: Locuming -general advice please

Tim Mainland — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:02:38 GMT

Lisa,

Our accountant - and he is accountant for 300 other vet practices- advises against employing locums on anything other than PAYE. It is more expensive for us to do that - employers NICs - so there is no financial incentive to advise it. But we really dont want HMRC on our back a few years down the line over a non- PAYE locum.

As for agencies, we try to avoid them big time. All they do is to trawl the ads and put people together. And take a BIG fee from the practice which undermines the locum's earning power. So I'd advise you to avoid them . Mailshot or phone or email practices you want to work for. It's not hard to build up a few good contacts in the vet profession. Or use the free sites- there's loads of them including this one!

And if you're in the North West, we have a job going in our fantastic practice!!!!

tim@vetontheweb.com if you're in the locality!

Re: Locuming -general advice please

Tim Newton — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:56:42 GMT

Many HMRC inspectors are getting very sticky about locum vets being regarded as self employed, (and it is hard to justify with IR35). We no longer pay locums directly at all. If they do not work for their own company, we pay PAYE. If you work for your own company, your tax & NI is your company’s problem. If I pay you directly, they could both become my problem, even if you have paid them. You will find that that becomes increasingly common. It is more expensive and more hassle for me, but I know of a few practices that have had huge fights on this score with HMRC over claims from them for some seriously hefty amounts.

More and more of our colleagues in this area do as we do.

Re: Locuming -general advice please

listhestar — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:09:39 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]So you don't set out locuming and simultaneously start looking for a house to buy. That's the real world I'm afraid.[/quote]

granted, the real world is the only one. My reservations re self employment were for complex reasons close to home hence why I was checking whether you have to be self employed to be a locum. If so then it rules it out.

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

Could it be, Lisa, that what you really need is to move to a better assistant's job?

[/quote]

Quite possibly. I think sometimes its hard to find out roughly what's 'normal' (and yes normal varies-perhaps reasonable a better word) and what's not e.g. is a 50-60hr week impacting on family life normal and something I either put up with or leave the profession over.?! Could be a grass is always greener issue.

Thanks

Re: Locuming -general advice please

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:53:37 GMT

No there was another thread earlier, non-ranting, useful. Perhaps it was on the original tryout vetsurgeon. Arlo, are all those threads still readable somewhere?

[quote user="macflea"]most practises or recruitment agencies wont pay you if you are self employed, something to do with revenue[/quote]

Huh? Most practices would much rather you were self-employed. There is a problem sometimes for the practice convincing the Inland Revenue, now known as HMRC, that you are self-employed and not an employee; in the latter case they have to deduct PAYE and NIC and also pay employers' NIC and keep a P11 and give you a P45 or a P60 and it's all very tedious. If you are self-employed they just hand you all the money and it's up to you to pay tax and NIC.

You don't have to be a company. Just declare yourself as self-employed and get a certificate from HMRC to that effect. I'm not quite sure, you would want to ask an accountant, but I don't think there is now any advantage in making yourself a company.

There are some criteria about your terms of contract with the practice that also need to be fulfilled if HMRC are not to deem you an employee: for instance, providing your own protective clothing, and your own portable equipment (e.g. stethoscope), maybe using your own car. It can also make a difference whether you are covering for an employed assistant or a self-employed partner. All this can be a drag for the practice but it need not bother you: just make it plain you are being engaged as a self-employed contractor. Oh yes, and make sure you do pay your taxes of course!

I don't understand about "recruitment agencies won't pay you". Recruitment agencies are just that. They don't pay you, and you shouldn't pay them. They are paid fees by the practices they find locums for.

You need I think around three years of solid accounts to get a mortgage usually. So you don't set out locuming and simultaneously start looking for a house to buy. That's the real world I'm afraid.

Could it be, Lisa, that what you really need is to move to a better assistant's job?

Re: Locuming -general advice please

listhestar — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:56:10 GMT

[quote user="macflea"]i wrote that piece ranting about locuming[/quote]

Hey we all have bad days and I think a rant helps!

[quote user="macflea"]most practises or recruitment agencies wont pay you if you are self employed, [/quote]

So then how do you get paid- is using Ltd company the only way (or an umbrella company) or can you not be self employed and work as a locum. It all gets very confusing

I just thought it might be a way to see a few dfferent practices. I'm currently working a 50-60hr week routinely anyway- at least with locuming you have a few more breaks to recharge!

Cheers

Lisa

Re: Locuming -general advice please

macflea — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:45:18 GMT

i wrote that piece ranting about locuming, most practises or recruitment agencies wont pay you if you are self employed, something to do with revenue , i think its an exucse most doctors and dentist locums are self employed as far as i know, , you can work as a company that you set up yourself or for an umbreela company run by an agency , these umbrella companies are a joke . you get caught to pay employers national insurance as well as your own. for example for a 2000 pound locum i did i only saw 1250 pounds and as a locum they work you hard . i say best option is a company. your right if you want a mortgage its harder to get if self employed

cheers macflea

Re: Locuming -general advice please

listhestar — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:06:05 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]similar thread a while ago[/quote]

The only one I could find was a general letting off steam about the downs of locuming.

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]why on earth would you not want to be self-employed?[/quote]

The concept scares me a little- I've seen how hard it is sorting accounts out etc, secondly you need 4 years of sucessful books for things like mortgages to be accepted thirdly the general hassle, though I appreciate you can claim things back and you're your own boss etc. Maybe when I'm a little older and wiser

Re: Locuming -general advice please

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:57:29 GMT

There was a similar thread a while ago. I can't just find it at the moment, but try "Search"

I would only add: why on earth would you not want to be self-employed?