dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

RE: dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

ChrisBVSc — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 12:29:33 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

[quote user="ChrisBVSc"]

[quote user="robloxley"]

a. the veterinary surgeon must have been given the responsibility for the health of the animal or herd by the owner or the owner's agent b. that responsibility must be real and not nominal

[/quote]

I would be inclined to agree with Bob - to me this implies it should be the vet seeing the animal. Whether we're talking about POM-V flea treatment or antibiotics, the fact remains that they are legally classed under the same licensing/prescribing category and you wouldn't have anyone but the vet prescribing antibiotics.

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Do you then allow receptionists to redispense these products to clients who have already been prescribed them b a vet in the first place?

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Nurses can re-dispense ongoing flea/worm supplies for up to 12 months after the vet has seen the animal, which counts as a 12 month prescribe as long as there are no significant changes to health or weight.

RE: dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

Naomi Watson — Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:01:57 GMT

Thanks everybody for replies. I agree that I think it should be vet doing the exam but an exam within the year seems to be acceptable. If in doubt about the weight then a free weigh and flea check nurse can be done at 6 months. I agree that we have had a few annoyed clients having to come in at 6 months as they don't think it is necessary.

RE: dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

Stephen Courtney — Mon, 15 Feb 2016 22:47:17 GMT

[quote user="ChrisBVSc"]

[quote user="robloxley"]

a. the veterinary surgeon must have been given the responsibility for the health of the animal or herd by the owner or the owner's agent b. that responsibility must be real and not nominal

[/quote]

Do you then allow receptionists to redispense these products to clients who have already been prescribed them b a vet in the first place?

RE: dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

ChrisBVSc — Mon, 15 Feb 2016 12:40:34 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

a. the veterinary surgeon must have been given the responsibility for the health of the animal or herd by the owner or the owner's agent b. that responsibility must be real and not nominal

[/quote]

RE: dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

bob lehner — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 20:59:57 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

Nothing here says it must be the vet that has examined the animal

[/quote][quote user="robloxley"]4.11 A veterinary surgeon cannot usually have an animal under his or her care if there has been no physical examination;[/quote]

I really think the implication is that the vet has done the examination and not delegated it to someone else???

RE: dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

Rob Loxley — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 19:11:26 GMT

[quote user="ChrisBVSc"]I'm not the boss, but my personal interpretation is that a vet should be doing it as they're POM-V products i.e. V for vet. However I've certainly come across nurses doing these checks in other practices[/quote]

Under his care 4.9: The Veterinary Medicines Regulations do not define the phrase 'under his care' and the RCVS has interpreted it as meaning that: a. the veterinary surgeon must have been given the responsibility for the health of the animal or herd by the owner or the owner's agent b. that responsibility must be real and not nominal c. the animal or herd must have been seen immediately before prescription or, d. recently enough or often enough for the veterinary surgeon to have personal knowledge of the condition of the animal or current health status of the herd or flock to make a diagnosis and prescribe e. the veterinary surgeon must maintain clinical records of that herd/flock/individual 4.10 What amounts to 'recent enough' must be a matter for the professional judgement of the veterinary surgeon in the individual case. 4.11 A veterinary surgeon cannot usually have an animal under his or her care if there has been no physical examination; consequently a veterinary surgeon should not treat an animal or prescribe POM-V medicines via the Internet alone

Nothing here says it must be the vet that has examined the animal; for routine parasitacides we have a checklist that our nurses go through with the owner/pet and on the basis of this drugs are prescribed, or not, by the vet.

RE: dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

ChrisBVSc — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 18:12:46 GMT

We're also happy to dispense routine parasite products for up to 12 months. A free check is given if they haven't been seen for over a year, which is done by a vet.

I'd also be interested in any thoughts on whether nurses could be doing these checks, as it would be a massive help. I'm not the boss, but my personal interpretation is that a vet should be doing it as they're POM-V products i.e. V for vet. However I've certainly come across nurses doing these checks in other practices.

RE: dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

Rob Loxley — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 23:28:18 GMT

We're happy with annual checks for flea/worming treatment. Indeed I can see why you might say OK for 2 years, but I don't think it's a bad thing in general to see the animal every year, and I wonder at what point you are stretching 'under my care'.

Other medications it depends on the disease, the owner and the animal - for many pets in heart failure I'd say we should be seeing them more than every 6 months, say.

RE: dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 23:22:12 GMT

Happy selling 12 months worth of flea and worm. Happy dispensing if seen in the last 12 months (6 months MAX for anything else).

For health plan people they can have a max of 3 months supply - just in case they cancel their direct debit and disappear into the ether.

RE: dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

Charlotte Marshall — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 22:42:12 GMT

Flea and worming products we will dispense if seen within the last 12 months. If they have not been in that time we will do a free check which can be with a nurse for these products only.

RE: dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

Nicola Cole — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 22:23:24 GMT

If seen in the past year then will dispense. If a youngster then we get them to pop in for weight check (FOC)...and I usually only dispense the number of pipettes in that weight category that I think the dog will use.

RE: dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

Stephanie Wellings — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 22:23:24 GMT

We have every 6 months as a practice policy - and although the six month check 'in between boosters' is usually free, (mostly with an RVN, but sometimes vets do them), I find a significant number of clients get quite irritated at the inconvenience of having to come in (and potentially just use Frontline instead....)

RE: dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 18:42:32 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Within a year - fine. (Unless under 1 year old.) If young, or not been seen in >12months, we get them to bring the pet in to be weighed (FOC obviously) but if looks healthy and happy then will dispense.

[/quote]

We do the same as this, I don't see any need for 6 monthly check-ups to dispense routine parasite treatment for adult animals.

RE: dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 16:39:52 GMT

My pet hate is when people with growing pups get sold a box of advocate that they then outgrow - grrr!

I am happy to keep dispensing advocate and similar products to clients who already use them, for up to 2 years then we need them to come in for a free weight and general health check. Most clients who use these products also vaccinate and visit the vet when needed for other things, so we don't have to do this often - most of the free flea checks are given to newly registered clients, and its a good opportunity to show them how nice and caring we are and how interested we are in them and their pets.

There are also some pets that are either so vicious or otherwise awkward that I am far more flexible over revisit appointments. One is a Persian that invariably arrives at the surgery soaked in urine, vomit and liquid stress induced diarrhoea. She doesn't have to come any more.

RE: dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 16:13:33 GMT

RE: dispensing of advocate and other worming and flea POMs

Will McMullan — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 15:35:13 GMT

We do a free check if the animal has not been seen in a year. Vaccinations and other consultations count as having seen the animal. I would happily give out a year's supply of flea and worm treatment, but none of our clients ever request it. Some take six months' worth. The one's I get a little twitchy about are those that have been seen but the most recent weight we have for them is 4 years ago!