Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Anna Battek-Kosiorowska — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 18:53:51 GMT

[quote user="Catriona MacIntyre"]

Technique for removing a mink from behind a radiator in a laundrette:

Have a crush cage ready, up ended with the end trap open. Find a stick. Carefully introduce stick to the space between the radiator and the wall. Wait about half a second for the mink to sink its teeth into said stick. Withdraw stick, swing over to crush cage, deposit mink, close trap as much as possible, remove stick and close trap fully.

Drop crush cage into large bin bag, close loosely and exit laundrette (with the mink!) before the enraged animal sprays all over the shop!

You might never have to use this tip .... but then again....

[/quote]

Catriona you won internet!

If I only knew that years ago...Once upon a time, somewhere in dark ages before cat catcher was invented...During my seeing practice as a student time I was placed with a rather eccentric practice. The boss was an avid coypu keeper. Apparently they were the best for sausages (please don't ask, I beg you). Evil beasts were running loose in the yard behind practice (free range these days). An equivalent of £5 (bottle of vodka!) was offered to any student who will catch one of the monsters. Most of the time they were hiding in a pile of logs. I can see potential in "the mink behind a radiator" method.

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Edward Jones — Thu, 11 Feb 2016 10:47:24 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]

If I type too fast things tend to go a bit dyslexic. My best effort was typing a drug label for Canaural in a rush -'Insert deep into the ears twice a day'. However the 'e' of 'ears' got translocated from the front to the end of the word....oh dear.

[/quote]

I enjoy the wide-eyed look I occasionally get when I come back into the consulting room brandishing a probiotic syringe. I'll let the client fester a little until I feel sorry for them, before explaining it only has to go in the front end.

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 20:53:49 GMT

Pmsl

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

bob lehner — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 20:50:00 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]I would also add 'how to administer ear medication' to that list. I don't think I can count the number of times that I've done a recheck and found the owners weren't putting ear meds in appropriately[/quote]

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 16:16:43 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]i wonder if that survey should have a date of graduation question[/quote]

And also the option to reply with 'I discuss the giving of the medication with the owner, and act accordingly' reply? Showing every single owner how to medicate their pet is as inappropriate as showing none, in my humble opinion.

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:52:04 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]

Hi Julian,

i wonder if that survey should have a date of graduation question

it maybe that things have changed over the years.

I would also add 'how to administer ear medication' to that list. I don't think I can count the number of times that I've done a recheck and found the owners weren't putting ear meds in appropriately

[/quote]

Osurnia is great! Had some good results so far and happy clients/dogs.

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Julian Earl — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:10:56 GMT

I am reliably informed that an anonymous post has been deleted by the Boss because Anon posting is only intended for personal and sensitive issues rather than for opinionating.

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Julian Earl — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:03:50 GMT

Thanks Ruth, Arlo agrees with your point and as I don't know if a poll can be amended. I'll ask him.

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

ruths — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 07:20:47 GMT

Hi Julian,

i wonder if that survey should have a date of graduation question

it maybe that things have changed over the years.

I would also add 'how to administer ear medication' to that list. I don't think I can count the number of times that I've done a recheck and found the owners weren't putting ear meds in appropriately

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Julian Earl — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 22:40:01 GMT

Poll added to my original post; repeated here for those already in the thread: http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/2586268/Animal-Handling

If yu haven't realised it yet, any criticism of mine is aimed at our teaching. Why are we not formally taught these things that should be day one skills?

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Julian Earl — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 11:23:26 GMT

never knew Mr Easton (Did you ever know John Smith Baxter?). But I honestly thought every vet knew this was how to give a cat a tablet. I've been doing it for, ummm... forty-three and a half years. I confess there are three types which have defeated me: the rat-traps, which manage to snap shut their jaws on any approaching finger even though their noses are pointed to the ceiling; the barbed-wire specialists, who get you with their claws (owners are quite incapable of holding them, despite being instructed as to how); and the clams, whose neck muscles appear to be stronger than my wrist muscles.

Evelyn, No I never knew JohnBaxter but knew him as the opposition back then. Also Mr Kight and Mr Bachelor ias other Leeds vets in those days? I owe my career to Mr Easton and his senior Mr Moore because the latter wrote to Liverpool in support of my application and having missed by one grade the first year I applied,I thenreceived an unconditional offer as a result for the following year. The rest is history as they say...Thanks Mr Moore. Sadly he was a suicide statistic some years ago. . I genuinely used things I learnt there every single day until my career ended abruptly 8th August 2012. I heard myself asking the identical history-taking questions word for word, and owe everything to them really.including giving cats tablets of course!:)[]

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 09:11:47 GMT

Thanks Gillian I'd worked out HyperTrophic and was racking my brains to work out the final H

Wynne

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 01:32:03 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"] Iassure you that I have never failed to give a "normal" moggy a tablet in the way that I describe above.[/quote]

[quote user="Julian Earl"] One time a cat embarrassed me was a nurse's cat that spat out the tablet at the feet of the watching crowd during my demonstration[/quote]

[quote user="Julian Earl"]This is why I am convinced that thousands of cats' tablets are sitting on shelves at their home because owners have not been shown how to administer. No wonder some treatments don't appear to work well! And I routinely demonstrate the technique described above which is where my use of the word never to comes from. I can only thank Mr Easton from Leeds for showing me this. [Don't look him up he de-registered in 2003. btw] I am not an expert in many things but would claim to be one at dosing cats. all thanks to his teaching of this some decades ago and thirty-odd years of daily practice.[/quote]

I never knew Mr Easton (Did you ever know John Smith Baxter?). But I honestly thought every vet knew this was how to give a cat a tablet. I've been doing it for, ummm... forty-three and a half years. I confess there are three types which have defeated me: the rat-traps, which manage to snap shut their jaws on any approaching finger even though their noses are pointed to the ceiling; the barbed-wire specialists, who get you with their claws (owners are quite incapable of holding them, despite being instructed as to how); and the clams, whose neck muscles appear to be stronger than my wrist muscles.

Surely everyone demonstrates to the owner? And checks that they are confident they can do it?

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Claudia Niehoegen — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 22:51:23 GMT

Did anyone hear the story on pm just before 6 about a leopard that got stuck in a school in India? It took several hours to catch it (with tranquilizer and net)

Next time you have a cat on the loose in the surgery just be grateful it's not a leopard!

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 21:13:13 GMT

For Wynne , and others who are unsure of the meaning of HTH. From the 'urban dictionary':

An acronym standing for "hope this helps", used sarcastically after answering a dumb question or pointing out an obvious oversight to a person of inferior mental qualities. Limited generally to message board posting.

or, apparently,

Used frequently on tech-support type forums, and also jokingly as a dismissive term after offering no help whatsoever.

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Rob Loxley — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 21:10:17 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]HTH?[/quote]

Well we all now know that if we can't pill every cat what failures as vets we are!

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 18:50:48 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]Come on Gillian, you know what I mean? A tame domestic, non--feral cat, used to being handled without reacting.[/quote]

OK ( The comment was followed by a smilie BTW). At least we're all discussing the same thing now - which isnt cats that really dont want to be handled. But don't forget that the 'tame' cat can be a whole different beast at home. I know....I've owned one of those. It got its pills....but it was never easy.

[quote user="Julian Earl"]Various practices where I've worked, experienced vets and nurses as well as novices chasing a fleeing cat as it leaps for the nearest window, open or shut,[/quote]

That's a shame. Not been my experience, luckily.

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Julian Earl — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 17:58:01 GMT

Come on Gillian, you know what I mean? A tame domestic, non--feral cat, used to being handled without reacting.

Where have I seen this? Various practices where I've worked, experienced vets and nurses as well as novices chasing a fleeing cat as it leaps for the nearest window, open or shut,

Plus I've asked other vets about giving a tablet and none described this technique. I was livid when I heard a receptionist tell a client, "You just force the mouth open and throw the tablet in don't you? No you do not!!

This is why I am convinced that thousands of cats' tablets are sitting on shelves at their home because owners have not been shown how to administer. No wonder some treatments don't appear to work well! And I routinely demonstrate the technique described above which is where my use of the word never to comes from. I can only thank Mr Easton from Leeds for showing me this. [Don't look him up he de-registered in 2003. btw] I am not an expert in many things but would claim to be one at dosing cats. all thanks to his teaching of this some decades ago and thirty-odd years of daily practice.

HTH?

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Robin Grimmer — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 16:42:39 GMT

Julian - I'm not sure your towel method would work on this feline:

www.youtube.com/watch

Oh and by the way, as clinical moderator of this forum, you really need to learn how to use the quote feature.

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 16:40:38 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"] Iassure you that I have never failed to give a "normal" moggy a tablet in the way that I describe above.[/quote]

What's normal???

I haven't met any vets who have struggled to catch/handle and pill cats, on the whole. I really don't think an inability to deal with their patients is a problem, so I'm not sure where you witnessed this demonstration of panic/chaos/inability but I don't think it is a general problem, to be honest.

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Julian Earl — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 16:15:14 GMT

The problem with approaching any aggressive animal is thinking one size fits all. I think saying the towel works for all cats is baloney (similarly that 'any' cat can be pilled) and actually bad advice. They don't, in our experience (20 strays at any one time, various levels of ferality) always work. In most cases at best they give you something to grab that is less tooth and claw and some mild protection (with gauntlets) whilst they're manhandled into a crush cage. I like the hessian sack idea though. As the more moderates have put it, flexibility is key, with the odd curse word. Calm approach etc is nice, if possible, but some of the devils around these parts would still amputate body parts.

David I really hope that you are not accusing me of lying? But baloney it is not.I have been catching cats this way since I was thirteen and it needs care but the key is to have a towel of the right thickness: thick enough to snag their claws and thin enough to be able to hold the cat through the towel, always, always, without gloves or gauntlets. I can catch ferals /psychopaths and Toms are tougher because sometimes their scruff skin can be so thick it is difficult to hold through a towel. Always have a basket or cage ready in which to rapidly deposit the feline. But I agree with whoever said about pressing them down inside the basket. that keeps them relatively still to be injected. I promise you that I have this experience;the benefit of working at a busy SA practice in Leeds for six years before going to university. Much of what Ilearnt there I've used my entire career. Iassure you that I have never failed to give a "normal" moggy a tablet in the way that I describe above.

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

David Mills — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 15:10:55 GMT

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Bob Russell — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:37:59 GMT

I will tend to use a towel for the mildly grumpy but will use gauntlets. We have a set with very soft leather which still seems to prevent teeth causing too much damage.

I am going to order a set of gloves made with kid skin (for dealing with bees!). I will report back if they are suitable.

I was lucky to work in boarding and quarantine kennels before going to college. You develop a sense of inevitability with this experience!

I remember taking Bob Beck's (a very co,colourful lecturer at Edinburgh) cat out of a kennel as part of my animal management assessment. It looked as if he could be knocked down with a feather because it had torn other students apart! H&S was not heard of in those days and 'duty of care' would have been laughed at!

We do have a cat net that occasionally gets dusted off for the real feral escapees.

Confidence and calmness works with most but sometimes it takes a number of attempts and methods to get them. This is where experience comes to the rescue!

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 09:53:44 GMT

I would normally agree with the towel approach - it has always worked for me. Until Socks, the psycho cat at the RSPCA shelter.

She was placed in a cat pod on arrival and was fine, following day she would growl and hiss if you opened the pod door. day after that she would throw herself at the perspex door if anyone came near. All the shelter staff were scared of handling her, so I said I'd do it.

Socks would try and jump over the towel and launch at my face. No cowering, full on attack. It ended up that I held a large bin up and when she dived at me I dodged and she ended up in the bin. Lid on, transferred over to a quieter building.

Fast forward a couple of months (and a couple of bottles of Kalmaid) she has a whole room to herself and is friendly - will come for a stroke, but still too scared to be held for an exam. All the aggression was purely fear related.

RE: Are we not the experts in animal-handling?

Catriona MacIntyre — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 14:16:09 GMT

Wynne - I was told that is was a stray ferret. I NEARLY attempted to grab it with my hand, because I'm fairly used to handling ferrets. SO glad that I didn't!

Doing a lot of CPL/charity work is a great way to get experience in handling truly feral cats. Quiet surroundings, dim lighting and good planning (e.g. how to get it from the trap to the crush basket prior to anaesthetising for neutering) make the biggest difference, and the less stressed the animal is, the easier and safer it is to anaesthetise.