Anything good about the Bulldog?

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Julian Earl — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 23:08:38 GMT

I can't think of anything to write in this thread really; Answers the question I suppose?

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

grumpyoldman — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 12:49:26 GMT

They are generally good for turnover if you can do the surgeries yourself with a good success rates, but watch out for the overweight clients with tattooed knuckles, shaven heads and no interval between head and torso. These people will expect you to function on a no win no fee basis, and ignore instructions on aftercare. Oh and they also expect you to cure atopy with a single course of something cheap.

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Clive Ansell — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 10:21:01 GMT

Thanks everyone for your input, some helpful suggestions.

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Rob Davis — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 20:00:16 GMT

[quote user="Chris Milligan"] I have met few nasty pugs or CKCS's (tongue-in-cheek I like to think it's selective pressure - aggression makes them stop breathing or their heart stop)[/quote]

Some years ago we used to have an evil pug on our books - as soon as you tried to do anything with it it became a ferocious snarling beast for about a minute until it turned blue and fell over. Cue running through to prep room and giving it oxygen, until it woke up and the whole cycle would start again...

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 17:50:11 GMT

I know it's a different species, but whenever I read about breeding for temperment, I always think of a Sec D mare called Pannau Pandora. In 2003, she was in the British driving team, and was in 2nd place for the solo pony class after the dressage phase of the world championships. Just think of the hours and hours of svhooling that would have been needed to reach that standard!

I own Pannau Poppy, who's her 3/4 sister. Poppy HATES schooling - I must admit I find it boring as well, We're both perfectly happy not worrying about prizes, let alone the British team, and both love hacking through the woods, paddling in the river, and galloping on the mountain with our friends. Poppy tends to have a "pwl dwl" if a schooling session goes on for more than 1/4 hour. Imagine if I'd bought her thinking her breeding guaranteed she'd have the temperment to be a dressage star - with or without a carriage/

Wynne

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Bob Russell — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 17:46:15 GMT

We have not had problems with cockers for years. I have known some complete head cases that would have given Fred West a run for his money.

Most Boxers, Pugs and Bulldogs are good natured despite what the breeders have made them live with.

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Chris Milligan — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 17:22:45 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Hey - don't be mean about working cockers. I'll get all proud father and post pictures of 'Molly'.

I think the positive breeding side comes down to temperament - I've known some lovely pugs/boxers/bulldogs.

I'm also not convinced that 'big dog on small bitch' leads to dystocia. I've seen some interesting crosses over the years.

[/quote]

I think people put too much stock in what breeding can actually achieve - remember most of these purebreed dogs in their current state are only a few generations old and despite their mutated outwards appearance their genetic diversity is still quite broad. Sure some breeds have been bred for aggression and I have yet to meet a shar pei I would allow in the same room as a small child but I do firmly believe breeding for temperament is overstated; I do however think certain breeds are attractive to certain types of people and the dogs temperament is a reflection of that.

Equally as with the shar pei I have met few nasty pugs or CKCS's (tongue-in-cheek I like to think it's selective pressure - aggression makes them stop breathing or their heart stop) but we should not ever fool ourselves into thinking having a nice dog is the same as having a healthy dog.

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Bob Russell — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 11:57:24 GMT

They skateboard brilliantly!!www.youtube.com/watch

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 10:04:15 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]I'm also not convinced that 'big dog on small bitch' leads to dystocia. I've seen some interesting crosses over the years.[/quote]

I wasn't talking about crosses in 'normal' dogs - the question was about breeding pedigrees, especially brachycephalics. As these dogs have such small hips/big chests etc, I have seen a fair few cases where the breeder has picked a big, wide-shouldered dog and a bitch with tiny hips. Inevitably caesarian needed....

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Julie Innes — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 08:41:51 GMT

I have a bulldog breeder as a client, and actually a good one (I don't really take on many breeders!) Her dogs are registered in some study at Bristol where they are trying to breed for better airways/ breathing, which I think is worthwhile. You're never going to get rid of the breed, but at least some people are trying to change them for the better.

At least real breeders are trying to breed for some characteristics, instead of backyard breeders who are only breeding for money and who care not a fig about what they are turning out.

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

ruths — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 00:01:38 GMT

I have the sweetest most gentle and funny little cavalier. He has been worth his wieght in goLd in our family. He's facilitated relationships around my son who has struggled with social interactions his whole life. He's also struggled with touch and other sensody stuff. The dog has ignored that and sits on the boy and has helped him to learn to care for others.

he's a rescue (the dog, not the boy) and there's no way I'd have ever paid for a dog like him

so far, he has no murmur, though he does do a lot of odd licking and a bit of hind leg high stepping so I do think he has mild SM..

so, for me, the breeding is about temperament - that's the only good thing about my little dog

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 23:07:18 GMT

Hey - don't be mean about working cockers. I'll get all proud father and post pictures of 'Molly'.

I think the positive breeding side comes down to temperament - I've known some lovely pugs/boxers/bulldogs.

I'm also not convinced that 'big dog on small bitch' leads to dystocia. I've seen some interesting crosses over the years.

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 23:06:51 GMT

Just be wary of any breed that wins Crufts for the following breed cycle!!

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Virginia Campbell — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 22:52:18 GMT

[quote user="Chris Milligan"]You cannot be holding the cocker spaniel up as a paradigm of sound breeding?[/quote]

Working cocker. Is KC reg cocker spaniel but majority of people would not be able to identify them as such, and would be laughed out of the ring at a breed show. Not perfect - hard to get one with perfectly straight legs and possibly predisposed to incomplete ossification of the humeral condyles, like springers. But no other conformation related defects that I know of.

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Chris Milligan — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 22:38:22 GMT

You cannot be holding the cocker spaniel up as a paradigm of sound breeding?

The comment earlier on in this thread about struggling to find the positives is bang on. Purebreeding has never been a particularly helpful endeavour - as evidenced by the criminal prices breeders are charging for the most recent batches of cockerpoos and jugs and bullshits and whatever else you want to call them are simply the latest get-rich-quick scheme from the workshy eugenics practitioners that have the audacity to call themselves registered breeders. The health implications are profound and this profession doesn't do enough to call time on it.

I can barely contain my joy at the site of a raft of neonatal labradors or pugs knowing full well I'll be seeing them in 2 years for their atopic dermatitis or airway disease which "the breeder didn't say anything about".

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Virginia Campbell — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 22:27:44 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]

I'm sure I've posted this before

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jG0BGqOKer8

[/quote]

Love it, sums it up nicely.

I think the good thing about brachy dogs and really tiny micro dogs is that they are incapable of, and unwilling to do, as much exercise as a normal dog. So the owners can take them for a quick spin round the block and then vegetate on the sofa all day without feeling too guilty.

Also, their skull shape and eye size makes them look like human babies apparently so that's a big plus.

"They have a wonderful temperament and are great with kids" Yeah so's my working cocker (and in fact most gundog breeds have gentle, biddable temperaments and soft mouths). The cocker also managed to find and retrieve a couple of snipe across a small but deep, fast flowing river at the weekend and hunt bogs all afternoon without collapsing, drowning, or poking her eyes out on the nearest bit of vegetation. But most people have no need of this and she needs more mental and physical exercise than a lot of pet owners would like (she curls up and sleeps peacefully most of the time in the house - I suspect she would not do this if she was treated like 95% of my clients' dogs).

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Joyce Whitehead — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 22:03:31 GMT

Brilliant ruths..

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

ruths — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:55:39 GMT

I'm sure I've posted this before

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jG0BGqOKer8

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Joyce Whitehead — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 20:20:38 GMT

And breeding for temperament? Some brachycephalics are the happiest of dogs (pugs especially) and that obviously also applies to other breeds. Thinking of labradoodles, in my experience they have a tendency to hysteria at the least instigation...

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Rob Loxley — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 20:08:27 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]benefits in dogs from selective breeding[/quote]

Breeding for desired traits in assistance dogs and working dogs?

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Dagmar Steele — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 19:33:23 GMT

Hmmm. Easy to find the negatives, difficult to find something positive. Maybe like breeding for certain purposes, ask a sheep farmer with real working sheep dogs what he wants and needs from his dogs and why they breed them as they do (and ask him what he thinks about Border Collies going all popular for families and changing the way they're being bred by most nowadays). Or check with gun dogs, why is it a good thing that labradors love water and love to carry stuff in their mouths without destroying it?

The part about making her change her mind, well, what Gillian said :-) but make sure she is very well aware that she will be dealing with people mainly not animals!!!!! That always comes to a huge surprise for my work experience students, many of them are being put off by it. Because most of them want the job for their love for animals and their scientific curiosity, maybe also because they think it's a bit "heroic" and stuff, but the thought of dealing with all the nutters is something else :-D

RE: Anything good about the Bulldog?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 19:03:36 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Her tutor has asked that she also discusses the benefits in dogs from selective breeding[/quote]

I'm struggling with that one too..... maybe ensuring no size mismatch between bitch and dog? (small bitch/big dog--->caesarian).

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]As an aside, how do I talk her out of going into veterinary science? (serious question) [/quote]

You can't. You can make sure she is aware of EXACTLY what the job entails on a day to day basis, but if she is determined, you're unlikely to change her mind. (I've tried to do this with some students who I didn't think were making the right career choice - always failed.) All you can do is be there for support after she graduates- and make sure she knows she can always change her mind, both before and after graduation!