Dangerous Wild Animals Act

RE: Dangerous Wild Animals Act

Marie Kubiak — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 09:30:34 GMT

[quote user="Nhombokisheni"]...it all started with cats and dogs, then rats and lizards, the reptiles got bigger and more dangerous, now the animal's are getting bigger and wilder and dangerous, what next????? [/quote]

That is the very point of the legislation you are criticising - to make sure that people do not have free access to keep dangerous animals.

[quote user="Nhombokisheni"]All the while who gives the ultimate ok......vets........isn't it strange that the one profession sworn to protect the rights of animals is now legally shackled[/quote]

Not true. vets are part of the inspection process as well as the local authority and have the authority to refuse the licence if they feel public safety or animal welfare will not be adequate.

[quote user="Nhombokisheni"]you can't deny a licence on personal reasons, no not on conscience....yours is to switch off and tick the boxes[/quote]

Not true. Although you can't deny a licence based on personal views irrespective of the situation you can deny a licence on professional grounds if conditions are not appropriate. There is active involvement in the decision making not just a tick-box exercise.

[quote user="Nhombokisheni"]Are the cats and dogs you mention really happy......OR just making the best of a very bad captive situation.......[/quote]

My point exactly.

Marie

RE: Dangerous Wild Animals Act

Nhombokisheni — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 22:17:26 GMT

That great son of Jamaica once sang "give them an inch they take a yard, give them a yard they take a mile" ...it all started with cats and dogs, then rats and lizards, the reptiles got bigger and more dangerous, now the animal's are getting bigger and wilder and dangerous, what next????? Lions, hippos and elephants?????? All the while who gives the ultimate ok......vets........isn't it strange that the one profession sworn to protect the rights of animals is now legally shackled...(you can't deny a licence on personal reasons, no not on conscience....yours is to switch off and tick the boxes)

Are the cats and dogs you mention really happy......OR just making the best of a very bad captive situation.......(the universal animal farm).....managers always say their subordinates are happy.....slave masters did the same.........and now we are doing the same with wild animals.

Public safety is best assured by NOT KEEPING THE ANIMALS IN THE FIRST PLACE......period!!!!!

RE: Dangerous Wild Animals Act

Marie Kubiak — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 18:08:54 GMT

[quote user="Nhombokisheni"]

The operative word is "captivity" ........there is no freedom in captivity........there is no free will in captivity.........captivity by its very essence requires denying the captive in one way or another.....either the five freedoms????? Can we aid to be two faced for the convenience of the prospective owners??????

[/quote]

I agree the wild cannot be replicated in captivity but is this not the same for all animals, including our domesticated species? Is it fair to keep a house cat that tries to escape constantly and shows its anxiety by peeing everywhere, or to not let dogs roam in packs? By providing a decent environment there can be free will and freedom in many aspects, but it is a very much a sliding scale of quality not a binary structure.

The basis of inspection for DWA species is primarily public safety, but also requires confirmation of provision of a suitable environment taking into account the five freedoms, the species and its likely non-domesticated nature. If the conditions are not found to be suitable the owner is not permitted to buy the animal, let alone keep it. In this way DWA species' welfare is regulated to higher standards than most captive animals (outside of zoos).

There are issues with DWA animals not being declared, so kept illegally and not inspected but that is a whole other tangent.

Marie

RE: Dangerous Wild Animals Act

Nhombokisheni — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 21:57:05 GMT

.correction........Can we afford to be two faced........

RE: Dangerous Wild Animals Act

Nhombokisheni — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 21:34:56 GMT

[quote user="Marie Kubiak"]

[quote user="Robert Whiteford"]

Has anyone been asked to licence an applicants home as suitable for the keeping of a wild cat like a serval or caracal? What size has an outdoor enclosure got to be? Can such an enclosure ever be big enough? Can we refuse to license on the basis that these free roaming wild cats ought not to be kept in captivity?

[/quote]

Hi,

If you aren't familiar with the species and its requirements for captivity then I would suggest deferring inspection to elsewhere.....

[/quote]

RE: Dangerous Wild Animals Act

Marie Kubiak — Thu, 04 Feb 2016 16:57:07 GMT

[quote user="Robert Whiteford"]

[/quote]

Hi,

there are guidelines on most DWA species and licence requirements provided by BVZS but you need to be a member to use their resources. If you aren't familiar with the species and its requirements for captivity then I would suggest deferring inspection to elsewhere.

You can refuse to do the inspection if you have objections regarding keeping of certain species in captivity but you cannot reasonably refuse a licence on personal viewpoint - public safety is the priority and animal welfare the next crucial point.

If I understand correctly from your last post, these are F1 not true caracals but even so I would have concerns regarding public and owner safety as well as animal welfare if these are to be house pets rather than wild animals maintained in a species suitable outdoor enclosure. Hand rearing to make animals better pets grates on me as it invariably ends up with a socially maladjusted animal that cannot communicate or integrate properly with either humans or its own species and this causes serious behavioural issues, including aggression, very commonly.

Marie

RE: Dangerous Wild Animals Act

Robert Whiteford — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 20:11:54 GMT

[quote user="Alan Tevendale"]How many households would allow such an animal to express this natural behaviour?[/quote]

The offspring of these wild cats bred with a domestic cat are F1 savannah cats and are still listed as a DWA. These kittens have to be hand reared from 2 weeks till weaning in order for them to be domesticated and socialised. They can be bottle fed in an appropriately prepared room in a house.

RE: Dangerous Wild Animals Act

Robert Whiteford — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 20:05:38 GMT

Why does the DWA not prohibit the keeping of predatory wild animals? Their natural behaviour is to hunt and kill. It is also not allowed to keep prey species in the same enclosure as a predator. If they are to be kept in captivity at all then their natural behaviour is curbed.

The law allows for the keeping, under licence, of these animals and someone has to inspect the premises and police the compliance. I'd prefer that person to be a veterinary surgeon.

RE: Dangerous Wild Animals Act

Alan Tevendale — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 17:29:30 GMT

I carry out a fair number of DWA inspections and occasionally get enquiries from people looking to take on animals such as these.

My normal line in these cases is that in order to grant a licence for DWA the keeper must be able to look after all that animal's needs. Given that I've rarely found members of the public that have suitable facilities for such species I'm not keen on licencing these premises.

In this case I'd argue that caracals are extremely athletic animals; often being seen to jump several metres in the air in order to catch prey. How many households would allow such an animal to express this natural behaviour?

RE: Dangerous Wild Animals Act

Iain Richards — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 07:01:32 GMT

In that case, it's a flat no! (that goes for most non-conventional pets too)

RE: Dangerous Wild Animals Act

Robert Whiteford — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 22:35:21 GMT

Thank you for replying to my query. I do have some experience of inspecting and reporting with reference to the DWA act so I am quite happy with that aspect of things - it was more that I was trying to gauge the feelings of the profession on the keeping of these cats. Thanks again.

RE: Dangerous Wild Animals Act

Iain Richards — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 20:12:33 GMT

The DWA is fairly vague and its scope is mainly to ensure that the accomoation is big enough, that the animals are wel fed, and it escape proof. From my few DWA visits that was all I had to do. HOwever, section 3: (3)A local authority shall not grant a licence under this Act unless it is satisfied that—

(a)it is not contrary to the public interest on the grounds of safety, nuisance or otherwise to grant the licence

So you could speak to your LA and say that the keeping of these animals as pets is moraly wrong and come in under the "otherwise" tag.

Ensure you charge a proper hourly rate, don't do these things as favours!

RE: Dangerous Wild Animals Act

Nhombokisheni — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 22:03:23 GMT

Firstly I want to believe that those who approved this practice of keeping dangerous wild animals have guidelines of sorts......so give them a tinkle e.g. DEFRA. Can talk to zoos also....however the overriding factor for me is whether any prospective owner can meet the needs of the animal......young animals grow!!!!!.......so environment should adequately ensure the animal's needs are met for life.....if not then they should not be allowed to keep the animal.

No domestic place can be big enough for a wild animal...period.....unfortunately the law allows violation of some animal rights....so you can't refuse a licence purely on sentiments. I agree, if you feel strongly about it, pass the buck.......I would (just because animals don't have a say in all we do to them, it don't mean we are right.....what value do we put on our freedom?????? .... priceless!!!!!! Who amongst wants to be caged for life....NONE!!!! Yet we do it to animals....WHY?? That's just how I feel, so I wouldn't want anything to do with people who enslave wild animals but prattle all day that slavery is wrong).

It would be nice if you post how you got along.

RE: Dangerous Wild Animals Act

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 16:15:35 GMT

Not a cat - but I was asked to check a home for suitability for dwarf caiman alligators! I said it wasn't - as far as Iam aware the DWA license was refused.

[quote user="Robert Whiteford"]What size has an outdoor enclosure got to be? Can such an enclosure ever be big enough? [/quote]

My advice if you are uncertain would be to get advice from a vet/keeper who has experience with the specific species, or maybe contact the exotics vets at the Dick Vet?

[quote user="Robert Whiteford"]Can we refuse to license on the basis that these free roaming wild cats ought not to be kept in captivity?[/quote]

That is very much an ethical question - and not one that is being asked in this situation. You are just being asked if the proposed enclosure and routine is suitable. I would say that if you have an issue with the keeping of 'wild' species in captivity, then you should probably decline the request to carry out the inspection.