The next big thing

RE: The next big thing

Kay Colquhoun — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 12:33:31 GMT

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/pets-health/12073331/Second-hand-smoke-linked-to-pet-illnesses.html

http://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/172/16/413.2.extract

A PetSavers funded study with Professor Clare Knottenbelt shows a direct link between pets living in a smoking environment and a higher risk of health problems such as some cancers, cell damage and weight gain.

RE: The next big thing

Lucy Fleming — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 12:06:17 GMT

[quote user="Anna Battek-Kosiorowska"]My coping technique is not politically correct - visualising hitting the owner with a shovel.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure this is still politically correct until it goes beyond visualisation

RE: The next big thing

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 11:09:10 GMT

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"]I lay it on thick about lung and mouth cancers in passive smoking pets (pretty sure there was a study about this - maybe a PetSavers one?) I'm not quite hard enough to mention it when the pet actually presents with neoplasia (unless they have other pets), but if they come in for other reasons I guilt trip the owners as hard as I can. [/quote]

There was one done on cats that showed higher levels of Cadmium in cats in smoking households, which correlated to a greater risk of CKD.

RE: The next big thing

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 19:24:53 GMT

Unless the cigarettes have been smuggled

Wynne

RE: The next big thing

Virginia Campbell — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 19:21:28 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]I think the saddest thing is when you can smell cigarette smoke on the pets fur.[/quote]

I lay it on thick about lung and mouth cancers in passive smoking pets (pretty sure there was a study about this - maybe a PetSavers one?) I'm not quite hard enough to mention it when the pet actually presents with neoplasia (unless they have other pets), but if they come in for other reasons I guilt trip the owners as hard as I can.

RE: The next big thing

Robin Grimmer — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 19:04:04 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Robin I bet you and I (poor poor taxpayers ) have bought 95% of thise cigarettes

Wynne

[/quote]

Well at least the government is getting most of the money back in tax. The tax accounts for 80% or more on a packet of cigarettes.

RE: The next big thing

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 18:12:30 GMT

Robin I bet you and I (poor poor taxpayers ) have bought 95% of thise cigarettes

Wynne

RE: The next big thing

Charlie G — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 18:06:20 GMT

Just had to see a mean Presa, PDSA client but the bitch had post-whelping issues so clients had been ringing round until I ended up seeing them. After keeping me waiting at the surgery for 2 hours, and being unable to find any funds beyond the OOH consult, the owner informed me the only reason he was breeding from her (5y old, 1st litter) was that the breeder he originally bought her off agreed to a "part-exchange" - whereby he had to give the breeder a puppy back in return as part of the deal. Charming.

RE: The next big thing

Robin Grimmer — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 16:41:38 GMT

I think the saddest thing is when you can smell cigarette smoke on the pets fur. Disgusting and the poor animals.

RE: The next big thing

Virginia Campbell — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 16:10:09 GMT

[quote user="Cat Henstridge"]They were mainly Presas, which remarkably aren't on the banned breed list[/quote]

Cane corso and boerboels aren't on the list either

"will defend their family to the death...." crops up in the glowing tributes to the latter - OK if you want to protect your several thousand acre farm somewhere fairly remote where the only unexpected strangers sniffing around the yard at night are up to no good - not so great if a paramedic is trying to scrape your ailing self off the floor of your flat in a UK city and the dog decides that you need defending.

RE: The next big thing

Cat Henstridge — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 13:44:38 GMT

Back to the original question ......

I recently did a stint at a charity vets and saw a few huge dogs with cropped ears. They were mainly Presas, which remarkably aren't on the banned breed list, and had been brought over from Romania.

There has also been one doing the rounds on FaceBook recently, it was stolen and then drowned (very sad) but I did worry about the publicity for that kind of looking dog, we DON'T need any more of them!

RE: The next big thing

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 22:50:27 GMT

I don't know how people can tolerate the smell of yeasty skin and rotting mouths and ears....or look at inflamed horrible eyes and not think something should be done...

And yes i too wonder why they bothered getting a pet in the first place.

However I'm pretty accomplished at mentally filing them away till seen the next time, so i don't let things prey on me too much. Mostly.

RE: The next big thing

Virginia Campbell — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 22:37:27 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"] I hate clients who save up a years worth of health issues for the vaccine visit.[/quote]

At least if they've saved it up it means they've noticed. The ones I don't like are when they wheel it in for it's jab and it has dried up raisin corneas, bilateral otitis, teeth hanging out of its head and painful osteoarthritis in multiple joints that you can diagnose watching it walk a few steps across the waiting room. Oh and it's still obese. Despite all of these things and recommendations being noted once a year at vax time. I often wonder why they even bother. A lepto vax is right at the bottom of the list of things the pet needs (just behind the nail clip that the client has requested and that you do while talking about its real problems). They might take a bottle of Surolan and a small bottle of trial NSAID that you press into their hands, you watch the recommendations bounce off their head yet again (you can buy Harringtons in Tesco for goodness' sake, and artificial tears in any old chemist, how easy and cheap do I have to make things?), you book a recheck in 2 weeks and see them next year. Luckily we don't have many of these clients but enough to annoy me and make me wonder why they bothered getting a dog. Still, the occasional one does listen and make some positive changes so it's worth plugging away I suppose.

RE: The next big thing

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 21:56:45 GMT

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"]

[quote user="Anna Battek-Kosiorowska"]I have never came across one case of KCS after third eyelid removal. Is it because they were done for dogs which don't have bright future anyway?[/quote][quote user="grumpyoldman"] these things are often traded like production animals, and the other 44% probably die of something else before they have time to develop the KCS. [/quote]

The one in the Dogs On The Dole programme had been taken to the free Dogs Trust vaccination event. The owner didn't say whether it was seen regularly at an ordinary vet. I don't expect the majority of the previously cherry chopped go to expensive vets with 15 minute+ consult times where you can discuss various problems and do the rest at the recheck 2 weeks later, which the owner faithfully turns up to. You know more than half the time you are the one suggesting the STT at booster time, the owners don't present them for it because his eyes are "always like that". If I was a cheap vet who had to have a high waiting room turnover to stay in business I might think, "Should do STT, chances of paying for lifelong Optimmune zero, can't trust them with pred forte, chances of even persuading them to use artificial tears from the chemist minimal, waste of 2 valuable minutes plus "he's not in pain" counter arguing time and anyway its hideous ears and skin are bothering it more at the moment, let's concentrate on those. If by some miracle it turns up to recheck I'll STT it then". Perhaps I'm being unfair to vets and owners, I don't know. I've seen a couple of bulldogs with dry eye but we see very few of the breed in our practice so no good overall view.

[/quote]

good point BUT you can't solve all these problems in a vaccination visit. I hate clients who save up a years worth of health issues for the vaccine visit. or any visit - it means they've neglected things as long as possible. When this happens Ill pick the most pressing issue to get started with and point out other issues need dealing with too, but the follow up with this type of client is very poor.

RE: The next big thing

Virginia Campbell — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 10:05:26 GMT

RE: The next big thing

Robin Grimmer — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 09:55:24 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Robin

Cavalier

Wynne

[/quote]

Ah but that's a predisposed breed anyway, so it may have developed dry eye irrespective of having had the nictitating gland removed.

RE: The next big thing

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 09:08:10 GMT

Robin

Cavalier

Wynne

RE: The next big thing

grumpyoldman — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 22:55:20 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I've never yet seen a case in KCS in a dog subsequent to gland removal - and I diagnose it fairly frequently. It cannot be 56% or we would all be seeing KCS in every other bulldog![/quote]

Yet when I said I'd never seen "tracheal collapse" or chronic coughs in any breed I was derided??

[/quote]

Your mistake is that your thinking "pets" , these things are often traded like production animals, and the other 44% probably die of something else before they have time to develop the KCS.

RE: The next big thing

grumpyoldman — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 22:49:55 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]try to avoid the frequent failure of pocket ops. [/quote]

Needs an extra step involving plicating the gland onto the sclera about 3 mm caudal to the limbus with some 4-0 PDS , this holds it in place until your pocket has healed . Also some people close it over completely which then forms a cyst that re-opens when the cyst fills ,you need to leave a gap at each end so that it drains and does not burst open. Hopefully you will then get 90%. The long standing ones that have been out for months/years are the worst because of the fibrosis.

RE: The next big thing

Stephen Courtney — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 22:42:14 GMT

I see more bulldogs than is good for my health, and while they have a plethora of issues associated with being modern bulldogs, not one of them has KCS.

n= 6 - which i know isn't much....but I have about 10 dogs on optimmune that aren't bulldogs. I suppose only someone who sees lots could be sure of the numbers, but i can't believe its s high as Grumpy says.

RE: The next big thing

grumpyoldman — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 22:41:57 GMT

I do work for bull dog rescue and I see KCS, corneal abrasion, chronic keratitis, from cherry eye remnants on a regular basis, its complex often tied up with other adnexal issues ,unresolved distichia and diamond eye problems.

RE: The next big thing

Robin Grimmer — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 18:10:29 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Sorry Gillian This time I think you're wrong. When I was a school-girl doing work experience, the practice did a lot of cherry eyes for 1 particular breeder. Years later, and in another part of the country, I came across a dog with unilateral KCS which had originated from this breeder (proof = vaccination cert)

OK n=1

Wynne

[/quote]

What was the breed Wynne?

RE: The next big thing

Anna Battek-Kosiorowska — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 18:02:06 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]I think I know who Anna is referring to - but in order to avoid being sued for libel, won't publically name and shame[/quote]

That is spooky! I know where you are (roughly haha, still spooky!) and it is rather far, far away from where I am! Unless there is more of them blighters, bulldog specialists. Or as my Welsh nurse (as described by somebody somewhere on the forum) calls that person "bulls..t specialist, what it is".

RE: The next big thing

Anna Battek-Kosiorowska — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 17:36:06 GMT

Interesting discussion we having here. I have to admit I used to be one of those guys with hands up cows bums for so many years but even I managed to read some paper ages ago about KCS and third eyelid removal in dogs. I Googled (sorry grammar purists) "third eyelid removal and kcs in dogs" and the results still supporting that believe. In the same time I have never came across one case of KCS after third eyelid removal. Is it because they were done for dogs which don't have bright future anyway?

RE: The next big thing

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 09:43:48 GMT

OK n=1

Wynne