Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Claudia Niehoegen — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 10:20:16 GMT

Your profile states you are a single-handed practice. What's your long-term plan? If you want to take in a partner at some time, it might be worth doing it sooner rather than later.

To enable us to take time off as a couple we have only a 50% share and I had another PT job for years. Time off equals less income, and more opportunities to spend. I haven't found a way round that yet!

Our first partner went to Australia for 3 months ( and a few years later emigrated to NZ). I can't remember whether he continued to draw full income but rather think he did. We quickly took on a new partner because holidays are so important to us. We regularly manage 3-4 weeks, while our partner prefers 2weeks at a time, 8-10 weeks per year.

We are quite content with arrangements as they are, but it could be improved. At present we are trying a new rota with 4 days off every 2 weeks.

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 09:56:05 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]If anyone can think of a way that i can take this breather, I would be very grateful!!![/quote]

If funds allow could you not get a locum for a 2 month stint? Someone you've had before and trust? Keep things ticking over and the bills paid.

Tell the clients you are having some time off to recuperate after surgery. You don't have to specify that you were doing the operating and not being operated on.

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Bob Russell — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 09:39:02 GMT

I have to admit that i would kill for a break from practice! At least a month, preferably two. By the end of that I suspect I would be climbing up the walls and facing the divorce courts!

If anyone can think of a way that i can take this breather, I would be very grateful!!!

Retirement seems a nice dream from a distance and it would be very nice to travel to all the places that need my attention!

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 22:09:02 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Why would I want to retire from doing something I love just because someone once plucked a number from the air and decided that 65 would do.[/quote]

That's easy - bit of a scam, really; when the National Insurance law was passed in 1948 (introducing the modern system of pensions) the average UK male life expectancy was only 64! :D A more cynical person than I might suggest that the average person wasn't really intended to get one!

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Martin Atkinson — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 21:34:34 GMT

[quote user="HERETIC"]One is that Martin Atkinson should not retire. He clearly doesn't really want t[/quote]The fact is that I chose this profession because I wanted to and have loved (nearly) every minute. No job is perfect and of course ours has its upsides and downsides but so does every other. It depends if you're someone who sees the glass as half empty or half full. I'm a half full man and see it as more upsides and less downsides. Why would I want to retire from doing something I love just because someone once plucked a number from the air and decided that 65 would do. Its taken more than 2 generations for common sense to prevail and 'the system' to change so we are free to retire when we want be it 45 or 85 or never.

There are many things I would like to do and if I looked at it a different way maybe now is the time to pursue them. But if I had time to ski every week in the winter or go cycling every day in the summer it would soon become more mundane than working. I know there's a balance, its not that black and white, but I still feel I need to earn those privileges and would not enjoy them as much as if I take them when ever I wanted. Maybe its just me but that's the way it is.

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

HERETIC — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 21:03:16 GMT

Two things come to me from this thread as a non forum regular. MY in box has never been so full so perhaps I should look in on a few more.

One is that Martin Atkinson should not retire. He clearly doesn't really want to. If he did want to he would find a way. If he retires reluctantly he will be miserable and resentful (and according to my late father who was a GP will die within 2 years- look on the bright side)

The other is that really happy and well adjusted retirees not only live for ever but also have more interesting things to do than follow veterinary forums.

Yes I do know where this puts me.

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Martin Atkinson — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 18:41:39 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"] I meant you could repay their hard work and loyalty by becoming a TP and training them.[/quote]I used to be a TP and trained several nurses but when the goalposts were moved it wasn't worth the outlay and effort. A number of trainees have come here and moved on to a TP to continue their education and all have said they valued the experience gained here. Its just the present staff don't see their future in veterinary nursing in the long term and are happy with their present lot. We almost have a pact: if I retire so will they (at least from nursing) and if they leave I will retire. Two recent work experience students who were looking to become qualified nurses liked it so much here they have offered to actually pay for me to become a TP - if only it were that simple.

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]This doesn't make sense...if they are happy to work for that wage now[/quote]They're happy to work for that wage now but one is 19 the other 22, they don't see veterinary nursing as a job for life. They don't see the reward as great enough to put up with idiotic or arrogant clients but survive in the laid back way we do things as do I!

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 12:48:58 GMT

Misprint I meant to write 20

I believe they're meant to assist with 20 surgical cases per week. I do 7 or 8 in a typical week, so they'd have to spend far more than a few weeks somewhere else to catch up

Wynne

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Gina Dungworth — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 12:30:45 GMT

[quote user="Silvia Maldonado"]

www.coursera.com is amazing as well. Futurelearn.com has a fantastic one about life in Richard III's time

[/quote]

I did that one, and loved it. The forensic anthropology one with Val McDermid was excellent too.

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 12:24:18 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"], the huge hurdle would be I couldn't come close to providing 29 surgical cases per week[/quote]

Where does that number come from?

I have trained with 2 different centres- and never had any issues with our relatively low caseload. The odd thing that we can't do in house, they go to a different practice for a few days to complete. (We have had a few nurses come to us to get enough exotics experience.)

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 12:12:28 GMT

Gillian. Maybe Martin is in the same fix as I am. We're both single-handed practitioners. I employ a RVN I value the qualification. My practice is in the Practice Standards Scheme - small animal general practice (formerly Tier 2) If I wanted to become a training practice, the huge hurdle would be I couldn't come close to providing 29 surgical cases per week

Wynne

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Anthony Todd — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 11:37:42 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I wasn't discussing how 'valuable' a staff member is. The practice couldn't function without every single member of the team , from receptionist to vet.[/quote]

I realise that, and Martin's practice and others are good examples.

All I was trying to make clear that is that it is not necessary to have qualified nurses to have a successful, efficient practice and sometimes they can even have a negative effect as has been discussed before.

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Anthony Todd — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 11:30:14 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]What on earth is TUPE?[/quote]

I'd never heard of it either!

Very basically it means that the buyer of a business cannot change the terms [ie everything] of a "purchased" employee without the agreement of the employee.

This includes termination, change of duties, place of work etc etc.

But if TUPE is invoked it usually means the relationship is not going to last anyway......

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Anthony Todd — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 11:27:36 GMT

deleted duplicate

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 09:19:54 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Don't undervalue an "untrained, unqualified" veterinary assistant, or whatever they're known as now, some are as valuable to a practice as some fully trained vets![/quote]

Eh? I know!

I wasn't discussing how 'valuable' a staff member is. The practice couldn't function without every single member of the team , from receptionist to vet.

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 09:15:46 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] As much as I would hate to lose them I have their interests at heart and I keep asking when they are going to start looking for a TP but they would rather stay here[/quote]

You misunderstand me. I meant you could repay their hard work and loyalty by becoming a TP and training them.

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]They are well paid, as well as qualified nurses in some practices, and they are wise enough to realise that staying in the profession just guarantees them a shit wage for life.[/quote]

This doesn't make sense...if they are happy to work for that wage now......??? [quote user="Martin Atkinson"] I guess they don't see veterinary nursing as a vocation it is just something to do after school until something better comes along [/quote]

I find that a bit sad. Plus, I don't think there are vast numbers of better paid jobs out there without qualifications/experience ...are there?

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Silvia Maldonado — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 01:34:10 GMT

[quote user="Gina Dungworth"]

Julian,

Have you done any MOOCs? Not sure how many veterinary ones there are, but I've done a few that are connected with human medicine. The information exchange goes in all directions, so you can discuss the parallels with veterinary topics and maybe teach the tutors a thing or two! I've mostly used FutureLearn (http://futurelearn.com/), but I hear others are just as good.

Or how about distance mentoring of vet students and/or new grads? Use what you learn at veterinary CPD events (real life/online) and here to talk stuff through with the youngsters[/quote]

www.coursera.com is amazing as well. Futurelearn.com has a fantastic one about life in Richard III's time

Yes! there's a life out of the practice!

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Clive Ansell — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 21:03:39 GMT

The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations known colloquially as TUPE

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 20:28:49 GMT

What on earth is TUPE?

Wynne

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Julian Earl — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 17:31:20 GMT

We've talked about finding new objectives and I've definitely found mineA special day for me: I've just got back from my first British Cycling Para-cycling event, at Nottingham on this occasion. It was bitterly cold at the start, icy roads here at home but dry and clear on the circuit meaning. I've done one and a half hours of constant aerobic endurance effort round the closed circuit they use and was fairly stuffed at the end. It was non-competitive, until you have someone else on a recumbrnt or on a tandem going past. I'm not having that so it became a series of pursuits with me on my Orange MTB with slicks and that made it a tough daty . Next session on 20th Feb so am looking forward to another non-competitive training day! My heart rate was going at 149 a decent rate for me for that time. It has been a memorable day, starting my new venture into competition.I'm not going to let rheumatoid arthritis and my head injuries stop me from tryig to be competitive in the sport I've loved for 34 years !It just means I'll have to train a bit harder!!!

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Anthony Todd — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:49:49 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Unfortunately, their lack of formal training will certainly lead to their career choices being curtailed and their future salary limited.[/quote]

TUPE protects them to a large extent, however, anecdotal evidence tells me that almost all staff members leave when any business is sold.

Don't undervalue an "untrained, unqualified" veterinary assistant, or whatever they're known as now, some are as valuable to a practice as some fully trained vets!

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Anthony Todd — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:44:02 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]Sounds like you'd be better off just selling the property when the time is right Martin, nice little nest egg ;)[/quote]

Where do you put the money to earn more than inflation at the moment [and pay tax on that]......?

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Bob Russell — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:36:55 GMT

Our wage structure is pretty simple but anyone capable of doing a job is paid similarly. Yes there is a premium for the qualified and I encourage extra qualifications and training.

For those not willing or able to become a training practice it is worth looking at the Animal Care Assistant courses. We are losing our animal care assistant after many years but she (and we) did benefit significantly from the course (College of Animal Welfare). They usually get English and maths skills up to scratch if necessary as part of the training programme.

Any nurses/animal care assistants after a job?

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Martin Atkinson — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 10:22:01 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I don't doubt that you value your nurses and want the best for them. Unfortunately, their lack of formal training will certainly lead to their career choices being curtailed and their future salary limited.[/quote]You're still suffering from training fatigue Gillian :-) That is the whole point and I've had this discussion with them. As much as I would hate to lose them I have their interests at heart and I keep asking when they are going to start looking for a TP but they would rather stay here. Maybe its lack of ambition but both have experience of other practices either directly or seeing what goes on around them and have said they wouldn't want to work anywhere else (even the work experience students won't go away)! They are well paid, as well as qualified nurses in some practices, and they are wise enough to realise that staying in the profession just guarantees them a shit wage for life. I guess they don't see veterinary nursing as a vocation it is just something to do after school until something better comes along albeit they are very dedicated to it at the moment.

RE: Leaving clinical practice feels like bereavement...

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 20:17:05 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] they have both said that they wouldn't want to go and work for anyone else which is flattering for me.[/quote]

But they are now in a difficult position. I assume that, as such valued members of staff, they are well paid. Leaving your practice and taking a job 'at the bottom of the ladder' as a student nurse would mean a pay cut. They could even be looking at apprenticeship rates. No wonder they are reluctant.

I don't doubt that you value your nurses and want the best for them. Unfortunately, their lack of formal training will certainly lead to their career choices being curtailed and their future salary limited.