Disgust at Daily Mail

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Bob Russell — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 16:47:42 GMT

I very much doubt that many HIV infected individuals went out thinking, lets pick up HIV tonight for the fun of it!

People, especially the young, have a sense of invincibility therefore it will not happen to me! Every now and then I will push my luck and overtake a vehicle knowing that it might be a little risky. Does that prevent me getting an ambulance to A+E if there is a crash?

Life is risky but flawed though it may be, I like the idea of an NHS to pick up the pieces should I push my luck.

The NHS should be run like a good business and there should be proper accountability. I bet the savings could be massive.

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 12:19:57 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

There is.

Wynne

[/quote]

It will matter, because until they die they would be living among us. When the disease becomes hard enough to allow them to work, they'll probably have to turn to crime I'd suppose. Would you agree? What would then happen? They're not just going to dissapear like a magic trick Hannah Wynne Richards

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 10:05:15 GMT

There is.

Wynne

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

ruths — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 10:00:17 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

In a privatised system, I'd expect insurence companies to fund innocently acquired AIDS, but not the 90% self-inflicted type.

[/quote]

What do you it'd happen with those 90% 'self-inflicted' before the disease (or diseases) kill(s) them? How do you they'll live?

[/quote]

I think there is a feeling here that it doesn't actually matter what happens to them.

It's not 'my' problem, so I don't have to help. It may look like dehumanisation, but I suspect there will be an entirely rational response to it.

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 09:27:11 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

In a privatised system, I'd expect insurence companies to fund innocently acquired AIDS, but not the 90% self-inflicted type.

[/quote]

What do you it'd happen with those 90% 'self-inflicted' before the disease (or diseases) kill(s) them? How do you they'll live?

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 08:41:00 GMT

Bob Excluding OAPs what % of the population in your village would you estimate are on benefits? I think you'll find that there are very few, so the Gps have the time to treat the sick, because they're not wasting it writing dodgy "sick" notes.

That is the society I grew up in. I'm not claiming it's perfect - far far from it. The way some farmers treat their animals is appalling - and the financial pressures on modern farmers (due to public demand for unreasonably cheap food) is making things worse, and West Wales is notorious for puppy farming, but , even so, I'm appalled at the poor standards of ethics I find elsewhere.

When I was 18, I was in favour of sickness benefit, and the NHS. That's because I had never seen the system abused. The only 2 men I knew who were on permanent sickness benefit were a former farmer who had broken his back when a haymaking trailer capsized, and a former miner who really couldn't breathe. I then saw the system being abused, and decided I could no longer tolerate the theft from decent hard-working taxpayers

In a privatised system, I'd expect insurence companies to fund innocently acquired AIDS, but not the 90% self-inflicted type.

Wynne

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

ruths — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 22:22:14 GMT

It'll be the bad aids that Wynne is talking about...www.youtube.com/watch

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Clive Ansell — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 20:52:27 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]AIDS is another disease that shouldn't be a drain on the taxpayer - regardless of whether that individual is employed or not. It's totally preventable - all that's required is some old-fashioned good behaviour - and it's treatment requires a disproportionate expenditure on a few individuals whose disease is self-inflicted[/quote]

An astonishing post from an intelligent, educated profession from a caring profession.

True, more than 90% of AIDS, or more specifically HIV, infection is due to sexual transmission through both homo and heterosexual sex, and illegal I/v drug use. However, other methods of spread include transfusion of blood or blood products, needle stick injuries for healthcare workers, medical and dental procedures carried out in developing countries, and vertical transmission to unborn babies.

A colleague I once worked with in a charity clinic was bitten by a client (Yes the client, not the dog!). He had to be tested for HIV and viral hepatitis, and fortunately tested negative. If he had tested positive should he have been denied treatment because of the burden on the taxpayer?

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Francisco Gomez — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 19:25:01 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]Or use a condom![/quote]

How does that protect against a dodgy blood transfusion??

[/quote]

Er.. what? Apparently old fashioned good behaviour does

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Robin Grimmer — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 17:53:30 GMT

Nope, my car is 10 years old. Re cigarettes, at least they are paying a lot of tax on the cigarettes.

The biggest health problem we face is the generation of fatty fat fats now in their 20s - by the time they reach middle age and beyond they will be a huge drain on the NHS.

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

bob lehner — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 17:34:46 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

[quote user="David Mills"]Have you tried to get a GP appointment in the last few years for a convenient time at any point in the next 6 weeks?[/quote]

You have a GP!? you're lucky.

[/quote]

When I moved to a small town in rural Wales (Carms) I was amazed to find the local GPs here offer same day appointments - Xrays, ECG , bloods, physio on site. Reception staff friendly, doctors caring and seem interested in your problems.

Almost as good as the local vets.

(Whereas the GP practice back in Herts.......absolutely hopeless!!).

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Anthony Dennison — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 15:21:52 GMT

Wow, this is up there with your pro-eugenics stance Wynne. Actually shocked.

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Malcolm Ness — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:20:38 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]Or use a condom![/quote]

How does that protect against a dodgy blood transfusion??

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

Or use a condom!

Come on Wynne, bite!

[/quote]

Some ripostes are better left unsaid!!

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Francisco Gomez — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 10:18:09 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

[/quote]

Or use a condom!

Come on Wynne, bite!

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 09:47:38 GMT

I do both Dogs Trust and Cats Protection neutering. The owners are far more likely than my normal clients to stink of cigarettes, Taxpayers are paying for this expensive hobby - the factthat they can afford to smoke means that benefits are way way too high. Taxpayers are then being robbed again to treat them when they develop smoking related diseases.

AIDS is another disease that shouldn't be a drain on the taxpayer - regardless of whether that individual is employed or not. It's totally preventable - all that's required is some old-fashioned good behaviour - and it's treatment requires a disproportionate expenditure on a few individuals whose disease is self-inflicted

Robin They rock up in their motability cars, which are always < 3 years old. Is yours? Mine isn't

Wynne

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Robin Grimmer — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 21:24:56 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

I don't need the media to illustrate that. Just go to B&M or Poundland and you will see plenty of examples :)

[/quote]

Ah but you asked them? Or do you know if they're unemployed, unhealthy and on drugs because what they look like? Not making the same mistake of extrapolating what you see on TV in a shop to stereotype the whole society? ;-)

[/quote]

Ah, but when they've finished at B&M and Brantano Footwear, they then rock up to VetsRUs conveniently located in the pet superstore with their new staffie puppy and ask do you do any discount for unemployed?

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Francisco Gomez — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 19:56:03 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

I don't need the media to illustrate that. Just go to B&M or Poundland and you will see plenty of examples :)

[/quote]

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Robin Grimmer — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:56:07 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

I have some sympathy with Wynne. There are a lot feckless types, the sort you see on Jeremy Kyle. Unemployed, unhealthy - smoke, drink, drugs and no exercise.

[/quote]

That's the problem. We always use the media as an accurate representative sample of society, when it's exactly the opposite! News about the disabled that get on with things and claim proportionally as they should are not news, not worthy of a program in channel 4. Or don't you have the feeling that all clients expect you to worship Noel?

[/quote]

I don't need the media to illustrate that. Just go to B&M or Poundland and you will see plenty of examples :)

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Francisco Gomez — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:41:05 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

It would be thought scandalous if people wanted their car subsidised by others, no?

[/quote]

Once upon a time, a close friend (surprisingly very conservative in his views, if you follow the story...) suggested that cars weren't used effectively. They remain parked most of the time, occupying space and they cost way too much for what they are made of.

In a better society, we wouldn't need each to have a car in urban areas. We would all pay a tax to care for them and a proportionate cost for the miles used. You'd walk to your closest 'car station' and take the first one available, then you'd leave it at your destination for the next person that might need it.

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Francisco Gomez — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:32:10 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]You're not rewarding those with a better lifestyle, you're rewarding those with a bigger bank account.[/quote]

I'm not sure where this conclusion came from?? Health isn't about 'rewarding' it's about people having access to healthcare. This should be proportional to how much you use it, as in any other walk of life.

[/quote]

Oh! absolutely, but I'll tell you where it comes from:

[quote user="David Mills"]

No need once people have to pay for consults. Someone recently said it would reduce use of services by around 70%. Perfect.

[/quote]

Don't you have a feeling, you're not solving a problem? You are substituting one for another. If people don't go for a consultation because they don't have the cash, we're back pre-1948.

I see the point of overuse and of waste society's resources, but your solution isn't convincing - to be honest I'm surprised it convinces you!

Just like

[quote user="David Mills"]

I'm a rational capitalist.

[/quote]

We both live in a capitalist society, sure. But I don't understand the word 'rational' in it. In the end, you previously complained about the waste of money on self-preventable diseases, but all you're doing is linking people's cash to their access to medical care. You might well be proud of what you earn today, but for many, their cash is a result of their inheritance thus still the resources would be wasted, you're only changing who's doing the wasting.

[quote] Just like in our profession. [/quote]

Just like in our profession, if someone doesn't bring you the lump when is resectable because they don't have enough cash...

[quote]

A bit like driving a car. Not everyone needs a BMW although everyone would like one. It would be thought scandalous if people wanted their car subsidised by others, no?

[/quote]

No, wrong example.

That might be your idea of happiness, and of many people. Not mine and I know many who agree. I don't own a BMW, a could have one but I see it a pointless waste.

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Francisco Gomez — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 17:35:22 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

I have some sympathy with Wynne. There are a lot feckless types, the sort you see on Jeremy Kyle. Unemployed, unhealthy - smoke, drink, drugs and no exercise.

[/quote]

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Robin Grimmer — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 12:51:34 GMT

I have some sympathy with Wynne. There are a lot feckless types, the sort you see on Jeremy Kyle. Unemployed, unhealthy - smoke, drink, drugs and no exercise. And of course they all have umpteen kids with different partners. Plus the huge rise in obesity in the younger generation means the NHS won't be able to cope in the future.

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Bob Russell — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 10:04:47 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Some put on Oscar standard performances whilst being assessed, and are remarkably spry afterwards

Wynne

[/quote]

For crying out loud! Just because a minority abuse a system, it should be stopped for the genuine?

If you had been injured at work, leaving you disabled, I am sure you would have been all too grateful for a Motability vehicle.

You have not been unemployed, not become disabled so everyone else should suffer because you don't want to provide support for those that need it.

These criminals make good newspaper articles and Channel 4 programmes but reflect behaviour by a small number. Sadly this gives ammunition to bigots.

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 09:13:31 GMT

Some put on Oscar standard performances whilst being assessed, and are remarkably spry afterwards

Wynne

RE: Disgust at Daily Mail

Thomas Johnson — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 08:38:05 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

We do subsidise other's cars. It's called motability - and some of the cars are very nice too! I wouldn't mind so much if it was restricted to people in wheelchairs, but it's abused by those who tell the doctor they've got bad backs.

[/quote]

To be eligible for motability you need to receive the enhanced rate mobility component of personal independence payments, war pensioner's mobility supplement or armed forces independence payments. Personal independence payments are assessed by an independent health professional employed by the Department for Work and Pensions, there is no involvement of GPs.