what to do next

RE: what to do next

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 16:35:05 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]All that was missing was "some of my best friends are black (or Asian)[/quote]Funnily enough they are.

RE: what to do next

David Mills — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 13:48:32 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="ruths"]Martin- this is an honest question- which ethnic group and which accent are you talking about? [/quote]OK before I continue please be aware that I'm not in the least racist I am just reporting a racial stereotype. Secondly this is not about illegal dogs just the choice of breeds. And the answer is: Asian.

They end to fall into three groups: those that have large aggressive guarding breeds for their businesses like GSDs (why are they always white!?) or Rotties; those that have large potentially aggressive breeds for prestige/fashion like Akitas and Huskies; and those that have handbag dogs as child substitutes. While this may pretty well cover the entire demographic of the dog owning public the one thing that is universal with Asians is that they don't have any idea about behavioural/training issues. Now I can put up with being bitten by a snappy Pom or Maltese owned by a wealth Asian princess but I don't fancy having part of my anatomy being removed by a Rotty or an Akita.

The Ypsilon minus white yobs from the local sink estate tend to have Staffies which they like to thing are pitbulls 'cus they're well 'ard.

Eastern Europeans on the whole seem to be more sensible its just the language barrier in getting information across to them.

Those that own large herding breeds like Presa Canaria tend to be lower middle class British white with a bit of money but not much education.

Now do I get a red star?

[/quote]

All that was missing was "some of my best friends are black (or Asian)"

RE: what to do next

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 04 Jan 2016 10:49:45 GMT

The Ypsilon minus white yobs from the local sink estate tend to have Staffies which they like to thing are pitbulls 'cus they're well 'ard.

Eastern Europeans on the whole seem to be more sensible its just the language barrier in getting information across to them.

Those that own large herding breeds like Presa Canaria tend to be lower middle class British white with a bit of money but not much education.

Now do I get a red star?

RE: what to do next

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 16:04:41 GMT

Thanks I was genuinely confused, and couldn't believe what I thought you might have meant.

Wynne

RE: what to do next

ruths — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 15:55:33 GMT

Sorry- I'm amusing myself on a car journey and am in my phone and distracted

I didn't mean dumping the dog was the right thing, though some people have done that.

The right thing is to cooperate with trading standards and do as they ask- have the dog quarantined etc..

sorry, I didn't make myself clear -)

RE: what to do next

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 15:47:01 GMT

I don't know what she means. She hasn't made it clear. What do you think she means?

Wynne

RE: what to do next

Rob Loxley — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 15:38:09 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"] Ruths I'm totally confused. You can't possibly be suggesting that dumping an animal is the right thing to do![/quote]

maybe your reading of 'others do the right thing' is different to mine?

RE: what to do next

ruths — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 15:35:51 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]

[quote user="scarlet"]

long story -short precis

15wk presa canario pup presented for diarrhoea. The owner told me it was imported from belgium by the the people he bought it off yet no chip and no passport, then owners story changed to it was actually the mother that was imported ,as he's seen mum and dad when he bought it from seller 3wks ago in london . The pup has cropped ears that are well healed so happened some time ago. so it has either been legally cropped overseas and illegally imported , or illegally cropped in this country. I have asked him to find out more ie where it was cropped and to bring me any papers he has. I know illegal imports are trading standards purview (to not much effect as we had another one this week definite illegal - sold as a 9wk with passport issued overseas to very little interest from trading standards. ) But if it is bred here and been cropped - who is it reported to ? RSPCA i assume Obviously my client hasnt had it done , but it is still an illegal procedure.

[/quote]

in this case, I would present the information you have managed to glean so far and report it to trading Standards as per the posts above.

there is no need for you to decide if the dog is illegally imported etc- you just need to make a decision about your suspicions

sounds stressful! I bet they don't turn up tbh!

[/quote]

sorry- I realise I didn't reply to your question.

Illegal import aside, I think the other issue is a hard one. If you can get useful information from the new owners, then I'd consider reporting to the RSPCA but I wouldn't hold my breath. The issue is that the dog could have had the procedure done and effective analgesia etc and now it's healed. It's still illegal and unnecessary but I don't know how much money and time would go into investigating it tbh.

as I said, I doubt they will come back now

RE: what to do next

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 14:35:14 GMT

Ruths I'm totally confused. You can't possibly be suggesting that dumping an animal is the right thing to do!

Wynne

RE: what to do next

ruths — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 14:33:29 GMT

[quote user="scarlet"]

long story -short precis

[/quote]

in this case, I would present the information you have managed to glean so far and report it to trading Standards as per the posts above.

there is no need for you to decide if the dog is illegally imported etc- you just need to make a decision about your suspicions

sounds stressful! I bet they don't turn up tbh!

RE: what to do next

ruths — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 14:29:36 GMT

I've had a number of people dump these illegally imported animals once the issue has been explained to them.

Once they realise the potential risk and the possible fall out, they decide the pet wasn't worth it.

I have had others do the right thing too.

Martin- this is an honest question- which ethnic group and which accent are you talking about? I've had dogs illegally imported by British, Hungarian, Russian, Maltese, Italian and various other nationalities. I suppose most of the cases I've seen are Europeans.

RE: what to do next

grumpyoldman — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 11:20:23 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I can do without big aggressive dogs owned by d*ckheads so I would be rather unsubtley be suggesting that another vet may be better able to look after his interests. After a spate of problems with large aggressive guarding breeds owned by certain ethnic groups we started telling new clients with a certain accent who phoned up with GSD, Rotty, Spitz or Mastiff breeds that our books were full. I have softened a bit since but I still dread them coming in[/quote]

My biggest problem with these monsters, apart from the fact that the clients are not the kind of people you want on your pub quiz team, is that they tend to have more than one, and insist on house calls usually OOH, ITS 110-120 Kg of snarling unhappiness that has never been loaded into a car. So you end up having to drive with a semi anaesthetised brute in the car and a hernia or disc when you drag it out the other end . Stupidity and lack of vision and foresight does appear to know no bounds.

The case needs reporting to the powers that be ,just go to DEFRA, trading standards are as much use as a chocolate tea pot , I would also pop up with the details at your local MPs surgery, have a chat about Rabies , and ask him /her if they have seen 28 days?.

RE: what to do next

scarlet — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 20:08:04 GMT

thanks for the advice everyone. i will see what info he brings me on monday . we have all his contact info , so i will contact trading standards once i have more details ( or suspicions!) and i agree -i dont want to be dealing with this dog when its bigger - the owner hasnt a clue and isnt the sharpest tool in the box.

RE: what to do next

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 13:04:45 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]Trying to put my government vet hat on this type of case would be pretty much impossible to investigate and trading standards would be unlikely to take this on would they? The owners aren't complaining and are changing their story, so how an earth do you even make a start?[/quote]It is their obligation to investigate it. If they are not even interested they are in dereliction of their duty. Fair enough if they've tried and drawn a blank but they have still got to try.

Each time I've called trading standards they have jumped and started investigations instantly and if appropriate someone has been round to seize the puppy within half an hour. OK we are very lucky that our local office for City of London is based at the Animal Reception Centre at Heathrow so they are rather more switched on to illegal imports than most and the investigation officer is a very good client of ours but wherever/whoever they are they need to get their finger out.

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]Trading standards investigations and prosecutions usually centre around a complaint from an animal owner who feel they have been wronged, so there is at least the start of a trail back to a source which can then be investigated.[/quote] As if the owners are going to complain and risk having the puppy seized - get real Neil! The complaint should always start while the trail is still hot with the vet who has the details the owner has given them and who is still present at the practice so they can give more details to the officer. This is how it has always been here. Once the owner did a runner and the animal investigation officers raided their home. This is how seriously they should take it - guilty until proven innocent!

RE: what to do next

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 13:01:42 GMT

The reason Chris and Tracey are better off on benefits is simple - benefit levels are far far far too high, and it's intolerable that taxpayers money should be squandered in this way. Anuway, people who can't afford "kids" shouldn't have them. Taxpayers shouldn't be robbed to feed/clothe/house them.

As for the bloke with the plasma TV - if I'd been there, the TV would have been destroyed- over his head.

Wynne

RE: what to do next

Thomas Johnson — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:43:21 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

And taxpayers money is wasted on the unworthy

and

[/quote]

This might make interesting viewing for you:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nick-hewer-margaret-mountford-investigate-2043331

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/10175024/Nick-and-Margaret-We-All-Pay-Your-Benefits-BBC-One-review.html

RE: what to do next

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 11:49:10 GMT

And taxpayers money is wasted on the unworthy

and

Wynne

RE: what to do next

Bob Russell — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 11:42:03 GMT

My advice would be to take notes, contact Trading Standards and leave it like that. You have done your 'duty'.

Not much will happen but sooner or later we will get a rabies case then government will start wetting itself and looking for someone to blame.

Maybe not this year or next but the more animals that come in under what weak radar there is, the higher the risk of this happening.

Government have done the sums and decided that according to the sums it will not happen on their watch.

RE: what to do next

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 10:55:08 GMT

Trying to put my government vet hat on this type of case would be pretty much impossible to investigate and trading standards would be unlikely to take this on would they? The owners aren't complaining and are changing their story, so how an earth do you even make a start?

Trading standards investigations and prosecutions usually centre around a complaint from an animal owner who feel they have been wronged, so there is at least the start of a trail back to a source which can then be investigated.

In an ideal world we'd investigate all the wrongs in the world, but with diminished resources, (like the RSPCA) a prioritisation on cases that at least show a chance of success will be considered ahead of this one.

Happy New Year

Neil

RE: what to do next

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:04:16 GMT

Ruths will want your guts for garters brcause of your comments about the owners!

Wynne

RE: what to do next

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 08:57:16 GMT

Firstly I would pursue this with trading standards it is definitely their responsibility to look into this even if they draw a blank. Trouble is in most places they have little experience of dealing with these cases so perhaps they need a little 'guidance and encouragement'. If they won't then I would report trading standards to DEFRA.

Secondly, I doubt the RSPCA would follow this up with any vigour, there is little chance of then finding the perpetrator and that is if it was even done in this country.

Thirdly, personally I would want to have no more to do with this. IME Presa Canarias are a nasty breed and the owner sounds like trouble, I can do without big aggressive dogs owned by d*ckheads so I would be rather unsubtley be suggesting that another vet may be better able to look after his interests. After a spate of problems with large aggressive guarding breeds owned by certain ethnic groups we started telling new clients with a certain accent who phoned up with GSD, Rotty, Spitz or Mastiff breeds that our books were full. I have softened a bit since but I still dread them coming in

RE: what to do next

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 08:19:49 GMT

RSPCA Police are worse than useless, although we pay taxes for them to investigate all crime

Wynne