The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

Anthony Todd — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 17:02:02 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]so that's where I'm going wrong.[/quote]

Nah,you get 'em better and you're consistently abrasive to all, but people will put up with that if you fix their animal. [more steroids whilst that's happening which the animals will appreciate]

My guess is that you're the vet. equivalent of Doc Martin, the clue's even in the same name....

Thank yourself that you're good though as it's much easier to be crap but charming.

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

Anthony Todd — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 16:47:22 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Perhaps you haven't realised that the main reason a pet should be registered with one practice is for continuation of care and it doesn't end up getting conflicting treatment. Maybe practice tarts don't piss you off George like they do the rest of us but my concern is for the pet not my pocket.[/quote]

Yes, that's the usual "reason", which is usually totally without logic and I've had good dental and medical treatment in the UK and OZ concurrently, with no problems and I'm sure, with rare exceptions, the same would apply to animals.

Usually there's a very good reason for their to alternation, and it never bothered me.

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

J G Wray — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 14:31:28 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]Now, musically refreshed, let's consider "accept"! In a situation where it is impossible to influence an outcome or to alter the direction of anything that is already on its own route it is a complete waste of energy to either get "angry" or to rail against a perceived injustice in righteous indignation. Far easier for the inner peace and for lowered stress levels merely to, yes, accept.[/quote]

Velly philosophical glasshoppuh. However, to misquote the famous Welshman Taffy Ovid:

'Dripping water hollows out stone, not through force but through persistence."

[quote user="George Cooper"]if on the other hand, it IS possible to do something - then i'd suggest doing it. Immediately. Today's philosophical thought[/quote]

Ah another Welshman Dai Horace, "carpe diem" or "**uck the day "

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 14:03:04 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"] I wish that I was a genius, omnipotent, a know-all. However - I am pleased that you bit, as we need some light relief..[/quote]I know, you don't realise how hard it is for me waking up every morning and wondering how I will cope with all my wonderfulness for another day.

Come on George, if anyone took the bait it was you. I've only stated matters of my experience, you made the sarcastic remark. Have a Christmas drink on me and be merry.

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

George Cooper — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 13:50:00 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="George Cooper"]i find it so interesting how fevered imaginations work despite the fact that this battle is one we can never win, nor hope to influence - and therefore the most important word has to be "accept".[/quote]

I know your are an afficionado of early 70s New Orleans funk so here's a link for ya

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhzdcMNHDBE

It's the sentiment I like which is basically

"What you accept, expect"

[/quote]

Tidy bit of funk, that! Cool rhythm guitar.

Now, musically refreshed, let's consider "accept"! In a situation where it is impossible to influence an outcome or to alter the direction of anything that is already on its own route it is a complete waste of energy to either get "angry" or to rail against a perceived injustice in righteous indignation. Far easier for the inner peace and for lowered stress levels merely to, yes, accept.

if on the other hand, it IS possible to do something - then i'd suggest doing it. Immediately. Today's philosophical thought.

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

Bob Russell — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 12:39:27 GMT

What students and academia really should understand is that GP vets get a heck of a lot of animals better, protect many more from ill health and most of the time do not screw up!

Sometimes we get it wrong, sometimes disastrously but they are safe in their ivory towers, protected from many of the realities of life!

Usually there is a lot more information available, scans, tests etc plus they are probably expert in a more limited field.

I feel a bit of a dunce at times but most of the time it is because I just don't have the combination of time, recourses and information to do 'better'.

There are a large number of vets in this area and not one of them strikes me as 'bad'! Frequently I look back and think 'could have done better'.

That is the real world!

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

J G Wray — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 12:34:33 GMT

I know your are an afficionado of early 70s New Orleans funk so here's a link for ya

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhzdcMNHDBE

It's the sentiment I like which is basically

"What you accept, expect"

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

J G Wray — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 12:27:51 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"] I wish that I was a genius, omnipotent, a know-all[/quote]

George, with your Scottish education as well - the subjunctive if you please, even with an insult - "..If I were a genius etc..."

In your view, who do you think Prof. May's paper was directed at? Was it intended as a set of guidelines for academics/referral vets to help them relate to GPVets? Was it for students to explain GPVets, or was it something else?

Baffled of Basingstoke

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

George Cooper — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 12:19:08 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"] I can remember some very inexperienced resident types (although they didn't call them residents at that time) being appallingly rude about experienced GPs > 30 years ago.[/quote]I can honestly say that the academics who did a bit of moonlighting in university vacations to locum for me have been amongst the worst. A narrow spectrum of general knowledge/experience and not much common sense.

[quote user="George Cooper"]Aren't they NAUGHTY. Fancy registering with multiple practices!![/quote]Perhaps you haven't realised that the main reason a pet should be registered with one practice is for continuation of care and it doesn't end up getting conflicting treatment. Maybe practice tarts don't piss you off George like they do the rest of us but my concern is for the pet not my pocket.

[/quote]

this pontificating can get really tiresome! Anyone would think that none of us has the slightest clue about anything. I wish that I was a genius, omnipotent, a know-all. However - I am pleased that you bit, as we need some light relief.

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

George Cooper — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 12:13:21 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]I read that : but did feel that it was being said for our benefit and to cover their own tracks. Having know several young people briefly enter general practice before heading back into the academic world via internships and residencies for a variety of reasons , you often hear residents talking privately about GP cock-ups. Those attitudes have not formed on their own ,they have been passed down the food chain. These people will inevitably be affecting the attitudes of the undergraduates around them. So having spent years dissing "the great unwashed" its kind of ironic to hear the upper echelons of the academic world trying to big them up again. You just wondered how much of it was actually genuine and how much was PC bibble.[/quote]

Dr C, I think you speak well.

BVA have been the conduit for this stuff and have allowed the paper

Veterinary Record 2015;176:677-682 doi:10.1136/vr.h2521

Viewpoint

Towards a scholarship of primary health care

Stephen May, MA, VetMB, PhD, DVR, DEO, FRCVS, DipECVS, FHEA

to grace the pages of the VR. They're even asking whether this has any resonance for GP Vets. Imagine an organisation which is asking whether its members recognise themselves and their place through this? What does it say about BVA?

Aside - Whenever I attend a lecture I always look out for the introduction from the Specialist/Academic, which refers to their brief moment in general practice to establish their credibility with their audience. I always have an inner sigh.

[/quote]

well, blow me down! Doctor Wray! I thank you for your approval and support (just as I do thank certain others for their predictability and for biting).

i find it so interesting how fevered imaginations work despite the fact that this battle is one we can never win, nor hope to influence - and therefore the most important word has to be "accept".

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

grumpyoldman — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 11:03:18 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Aren't they NAUGHTY. Fancy registering with multiple practices!!

Most, I suspect, are loyal so long as we don't piss them off in one way or another. Sometimes, here, the phone actually goes unanswered if things are busy (horror of horrors - not within 3 rings?) and when I enquired (in my first week until I knew better) the answer was "They'll ring back... ...)

[/quote]

Not really naughty ,probably selfish and pragmatic , they like the local small vet they see all the time but do not like vetsnow particularly if not insured, but we get some insured doing it too . A lot are very canny and go to one place for routine things but then go elsewhere if things get difficult because they do not want to enter the referral culture.

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

Bob Russell — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 09:47:23 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

The known flow to the corporates is minimal.

[/quote]

I do wonder sometimes how much we do know about client actions; how many clients are registered at multiple practices (don't look at me like that, you know it's true), and how many of them formally transfer, and how many just gradually...drift over and away?

[/quote]

Aren't they NAUGHTY. Fancy registering with multiple practices!!

And - they do; they don't walk; even being spoken to assertively (we have one member, known as The Ayatollah who is a specialist in this) for example daring to turn up a minute after the official end of surgery being sent packing; tis the antithesis of anything and everything and is, you know, most refreshing actually.

[/quote]

Our phone system will direct unanswered calls to an answering machine that invites people to leave a message as everyone is up to their necks in it. It also allows someone to press 0 in a real emergency and this gets all the phones ringing off the hook! Not happened yet but most clients seem to be understanding. Obviously we try to answer the phone within a few rings!!

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

J G Wray — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 09:32:19 GMT

Dr C, I think you speak well.

BVA have been the conduit for this stuff and have allowed the paper

Veterinary Record 2015;176:677-682 doi:10.1136/vr.h2521

Viewpoint

Towards a scholarship of primary health care

Stephen May, MA, VetMB, PhD, DVR, DEO, FRCVS, DipECVS, FHEA

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 09:24:22 GMT

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

George Cooper — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 09:13:33 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

The known flow to the corporates is minimal.

[/quote]

Aren't they NAUGHTY. Fancy registering with multiple practices!!

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 08:56:54 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

The known flow to the corporates is minimal.

[/quote]

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 08:20:19 GMT

I can remember some very inexperienced resident types (although they didn't call them residents at that time) being appallingly rude about experienced GPs > 30 years ago. It didn't change my opinion of the people being criticised - it did make me think very much worse of those doing the criticising - especially if within earshot of lay staff.

Wynne

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

grumpyoldman — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 21:33:25 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]Prof May had a realistic soundbite recently in saying that the vets being trained nowadays all emerging feeling that they need to be specialists (or was it experts) in "general practice".[/quote]

I read that : but did feel that it was being said for our benefit and to cover their own tracks. Having know several young people briefly enter general practice before heading back into the academic world via internships and residencies for a variety of reasons , you often hear residents talking privately about GP cock-ups. Those attitudes have not formed on their own ,they have been passed down the food chain. These people will inevitably be affecting the attitudes of the undergraduates around them. So having spent years dissing "the great unwashed" its kind of ironic to hear the upper echelons of the academic world trying to big them up again. You just wondered how much of it was actually genuine and how much was PC bibble.

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:52:42 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]This is true in my experience, they are picking up folk who wouldn't normally attend any vet as are attracted by the offers. It would be interesting to see if as a profession as a whole we are now treating a greater percentage of the UK animal population[/quote]It is true, although I never expanded as I might have done otherwise, I never noticed any significant drop-off in clients after practices gradually opened up around me over the past 25 years until relatively recently and I suspect that was as much due to the knock on effects of the recession as much as to the cheap independent practices up the road who are stacking 'em high and selling 'em cheap. And then it was only the poor value clients who buggered off. The known flow to the corporates is minimal.

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

Neil Wheadon — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 18:14:52 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]But it does seem to be a different kind of client that is attracted to them. [/quote]

This is true in my experience, they are picking up folk who wouldn't normally attend any vet as are attracted by the offers. It would be interesting to see if as a profession as a whole we are now treating a greater percentage of the UK animal population

Neil

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

Neil Wheadon — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 18:10:20 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

A good independent will beat any corporate any time, IMHO!

It's a one-on-one relationship in many cases.

[/quote]

and how many vets are in your average Vets4pets / Companion Care?

They are by and large 1 or 2 vets and the second is often part time

Don't under-estimate this. It's the vet that drives it and clients are pretty bonded to them

If anything it is the surgeries 'in the middle' that have to be careful. Those between large hospital status with all the toys and the small corporates.

Neil

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

George Cooper — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 13:49:45 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]A good independent will beat any corporate any time, IMHO![/quote]

I think you have a good point : we are surrounded by V4Ps and CVS both of the surgeries grew last year , one by 25% and the other by 11% . Its important not to ignore them completely and take your eye off the ball. But it does seem to be a different kind of client that is attracted to them.

[/quote]

I am certain that clients tend to choose a vet for two reasons - firstly the nearest (and the challenge for all is to get clients to drive past one, hopefully two, possibly three other practices because we are so bluddy good - whatever that might mean to a client) and secondly because of peer recommendation followed up by "really nice" treatment of the human by the staff.

I do not reckon that a so-called "brand" of a corporate (and how many are actually following this route?) is of any consequence to a client. Where the corporate might score is in relieving disinterested VSs of the drudgery of HR, H&S, VAT, Stock in all its issues, IT, and therefore lets them proceed with that which fires them up and which instigated the initial trek to being an MRCVS.

And of course to do every test in the book prior to treatment. But that is a different subject for angst. Prof May had a realistic soundbite recently in saying that the vets being trained nowadays all emerging feeling that they need to be specialists (or was it experts) in "general practice".

He also muttered - just because we can does not mean we should. That's the word-economy version. I think.

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

grumpyoldman — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 10:07:57 GMT

I do think picking the right people is a massively important factor. Certainly no one is better than the wrong one ,in the short term ,but long term that can start to wear the right ones you already have out.

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 15:22:39 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Nah, you've got good, personable vets [/quote]Ah...so that's where I'm going wrong.

RE: The VETSHARE buying group is now owned by CVS ltd

patrick murphy — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 15:13:32 GMT

yes, I think that Vetcell might have to man the phones over Christmas