Value of BVA at £306 a year

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Kate Richardson — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 10:19:58 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]You can't please everybody. I really enjoy the weekly Veterinary Record[/quote]

And that's why I think it should optional

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 09:53:38 GMT

You can't please everybody. I really enjoy the weekly Veterinary Record

Wynne

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Iain Richards — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 19:37:34 GMT

Neil, I'd agree that they are a campaigning organisation and I considered that as I posted. However there are some serious differences, mostly the difference between professional, mostly business activities and a leisure activities.

Iain

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Tim Sainty — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:58:01 GMT

Thanks Kate. I will genuinely be interested to hear your thoughts so look forward to hearing them.

The publications in the post are not to reject the wider content of your comment, and your point re time is a good one. Who ever has enough of that?

We would definitely benefit from further research into member (and non-member!) behaviour with different options on the table. The hardest part with research is getting the responses from those who are less engaged with you, and it is good to hear non-members like you talking about what might appeal in future.

Tim

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Tim Sainty — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 10:44:21 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]You will see I am a member of the BVA and supportive of the organisation, but if somone could make mine and my wife's memberships into a joint account (as we asked you to do a year ago), that would be nice. If you can also do something about the overpayments too?![/quote]

Hi Michael

I am going to drop you an email to make sure I get this right and, although you are obviously known here, I am not sure that your wife is. I'd rather not risk overstepping a boundary so will do this separately. No problem at all with updating your accounts though.

Tim

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Kate Richardson — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 10:34:10 GMT

Thank you Tim Sainty that is very kind. I will have a read. I'm still not sure I want a weekly publication though, I struggle to keep up with reading my monthly JFSM journal! and that's 100% relevant to my work. So I think my original post will likely still stand re what I would be prepared to pay. I guess how you proceed will depend on how many members you are happy to have. Might be worth a poll (on here?) of how many current members would continue a full subscription, and how many would choose a more restricted membership if offered, and how many non members would join if there was a restricted membership on offer?

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Tim Sainty — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 09:51:59 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]I haven't been a member of BVA since early days of graduation- I would consider rejoining as I also like the idea of being part of a collective professional body, but I agree with Neal re the costs- I don't want to receive the Vet Record, I got sick of reading about epidemiology of fungal nasal disease of outer Mongolian spiders and weekly is too much for me, an email update weekly would be better with summary of key issues with links to full articles if you want to read more- this would be much easier to deal with (and more environmentally friendly)- I would be happy to pay up to £100/year to be member with reduced benefits.[/quote]

Thanks Kate. I appreciate the feedback. Just FYI, I have taken the liberty of sending you a handful of the most recent VR's. Now, as a non-vet most titles look pretty obscure to me, but I do think that the days of Outer Mongolian spiders might be a thing of the past. Happy to hear what you think...

Tim

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Tim Sainty — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 09:42:23 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

think the BVA does a great job however

1) Changing times/finances and the post above illustrates this. You need to look at better funding models, to reflect a changing and dare I say poorer profession. (more part time) I have suggested a model to do this.

2) I inadvertently sat at the 'high table' at an AHVLA conference 6 years ago. TB tendering was going through regardless and lay persons there had a pretty poor opinion of how a TB test was performed. This was going through regardless of the BVA. If vets objected, what was the BVA going to do, call us out on strike? that is the difference between BVA and BMA. In reality the tendering went through, they knew someone would take it on and so it proved

[/quote]

Hi again Neil

Firstly, thanks for the positive comment.

We do continually review the profession and our pricing within it. For example, we have greatly extended ways by which our concessionary membership category is accessible. It used to be our retired category but now covers so much more.

Again, happy to discuss with anyone whether they are eligible.

We will also continue to consider new ways in which we can make our membership more accessible.

Tim

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Tim Sainty — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 09:32:38 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Just binned my BVA CPD for 2016 as not one course ever seems to take place at the weekend which is generally when single handed practitioners can attend!

Despite my misgivings I have renewed for the year, but with little enthusiasm!

[/quote]Bob - Thank you for renewing despite those misgivings. I hope I can prove it the right decision in 2016.

You make a really good point about CPD, one that I personally hadn't previously considered. I have raised it with my colleagues in the events department and they are going to take it to our CPD group. The group is made up of your fellow vets so I am sure they will take it on board.

There are, of course, discounts available to members with CPD providers that can deliver that out-of-hours and at your own convenience training through online webinars etc, which is not to diminish the point but just to signpost some possible alternatives available.

Tim

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Tim Sainty — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 09:20:54 GMT

Apologies for the late replies to people. Just to say, in response to you Harriet, that I hope 2016 will see some analysis in which we can look at the impact of reduced membership fees where dual-membership is in place. We will obviously make opportunities stemming from this known.

For background, 50% of the profession are members. If it was a straightforward as cutting the fees in half and everyone joining we would do it but the reality is different. Even the small sample in this thread shows that people have many different reasons for being a member - from the good of the profession to personal individual benefits too. We try to strike the right balance between the two, and keep what we are offering relevant to our members' lives.

Finally, without getting into your personal circumstances here, drop me a line if you would like me to make on intro on Bupa as i have known it help in the past re some pre-existing conditions.

Tim

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:41:02 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]SVS & VDS[/quote]

Are the State Veterinary Service and Veterinary Defence Society BVA divisions?

[/quote]

No but the sheep vet society and the vet deer society are!!!

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

J G Wray — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:35:40 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]SVS & VDS[/quote]

Are the State Veterinary Service and Veterinary Defence Society BVA divisions?

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 14:12:44 GMT

[quote user="Tim Sainty"]I'm Head of Membership at BVA and could talk to you about the tangible individual benefits we try to provide to provide in order to fund the rest of our role but everyone here appears very clued up on the model. Still, I am happy to do so if anyone has any questions - either here, on my number at work or via email. I'm not clear on policies here re providing contact info but I am sure Arlo will clear it if these are a problem. My details are 020 7908 6351 or tims@bva.co.uk. [/quote]

You will see I am a member of the BVA and supportive of the organisation, but if somone could make mine and my wife's memberships into a joint account (as we asked you to do a year ago), that would be nice. If you can also do something about the overpayments too?!

I had always assumed you needed to be a member of the BVA to be a member of one of the division organisations? I've been a member since 1st year at uni. You could bring in a rule that to be a member of a division you had to be a BVA member?

What about a 'zero benefits' member as an add on to the divisions? No publications etc? I'm also a member of 3 divisions too (BCVA, SVS & VDS).

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Kate Richardson — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 10:29:36 GMT

I haven't been a member of BVA since early days of graduation- I would consider rejoining as I also like the idea of being part of a collective professional body, but I agree with Neal re the costs- I don't want to receive the Vet Record, I got sick of reading about epidemiology of fungal nasal disease of outer Mongolian spiders and weekly is too much for me, an email update weekly would be better with summary of key issues with links to full articles if you want to read more- this would be much easier to deal with (and more environmentally friendly)- I would be happy to pay up to £100/year to be member with reduced benefits.

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Neil Wheadon — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 10:22:39 GMT

I think the BVA does a great job however

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Bob Russell — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 09:36:15 GMT

Just binned my BVA CPD for 2016 as not one course ever seems to take place at the weekend which is generally when single handed practitioners can attend!

Despite my misgivings I have renewed for the year, but with little enthusiasm!

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Harriet Nicholson — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 09:24:25 GMT

So as a 'younger' vet, I qualified 4.5 year ago. I was a BVA member initially as it followed on from the free student membership but I have not continued my membership. Multiple reasons really: cost being a major factor as so far my employers will not pay for it, the CPD was not of use to me (evening meetings just too far away to make after a standard 7pm finish and general courses not as good as other providers), BUPA although discounted doesn't cover pre-existing conditions and for younger members I don't feel the financial services offered are much use. I also figured if I had a limited amount to spend on memberships then the BSAVA would be better - could there not be discounted BVA if a member of BSAVA/BEVA/BCVA?

For those of us who are main breadwinner, struggling to try to buy a house, BVA membership comes very low down a long list. Very few of my graduating year are members, if members of any group it is their relevant species (so BSAVA etc)

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Tim Sainty — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 07:13:09 GMT

Hi Neil

If this message quotes your post, it was only because that was how I added a reply to the topic rather than it being my intention, so apologies if so. I'm sure I will get used to how things work around here.

The British Cycling comparison could be made another way - namely that their membership level at £20 per head generates slightly more membership income per year than BVA does. I would suggest that is the most important comparison in terms of funding operations. Representation of 15,000 costs much the same as representation of 120,000.

They are not to everyone's taste I know, but we have added ways in which the membership fee per head can be reduced in a quid pro quo for increasing membership numbers and I am happy to talk with anyone about ways we all might benefit from this. The point here being that where we can find models that see people paying less for their membership, we will try to implement them.

My opinion is no doubt influenced by being a staff member, but I see an organisation that works incredibly hard to represent the views of a diverse profession, all the way through from the members of the profession who volunteer their time to sit on committees to the admin staff who support them. Most importantly for me, I work for an organisation that is always trying to learn and do better.

It is a shame to see positive things said about BVA unpicked and negative things accepted as fact. I never saw anyone devoted to fawning over third-rate politicians, but I have seen many different ways to lobby decision-makers about the profession's view on issues for example.

I'm Head of Membership at BVA and could talk to you about the tangible individual benefits we try to provide to provide in order to fund the rest of our role but everyone here appears very clued up on the model. Still, I am happy to do so if anyone has any questions - either here, on my number at work or via email. I'm not clear on policies here re providing contact info but I am sure Arlo will clear it if these are a problem. My details are 020 7908 6351 or tims@bva.co.uk.

Thanks for reading

Tim

PS - I hope Mark has run out of brickbats and rotten vegetables to sell

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Neil Wheadon — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:27:56 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]

Cycling organisation fees are hardly comparable with a professional body. BVA are I think slightly less than BMA fees and very similar to other professional bodies.

Iain

[/quote]

Well actually you're quite wrong there.

There are enormous similarities.

British Cycling and the CTC are campaigning organisations. Both employ staff to represent themselves at governmental level to enable better infrastructure and legislation with some success. They are seen as the go to organisations when government want opinion. In addition these organisations are stripping out the costly parts and this includes publications, concentrating on pushing things forward for the benefit of everyone.

I don't want a Vet Record or In Practice, there are lots of other publications to rival these. I don't want so called reductions in private health insurance or wealth management.

What I want is a professional organisation that will protect our interests and push things forward. Perhaps the BVA could learn from other organisations as to how to do things and finance itself appropriately for a digital age.

Neil

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Tricia Goulden — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:10:05 GMT

I am a member of BVA. I am also a member of British Cycling, which costs 10% of the BVA subscription. Personally I get more benefit from my BC membership but I like getting the VR & In Practice and believe I could get more out of the BVA if I made more effort.

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Iain Richards — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 20:32:25 GMT

Cycling organisation fees are hardly comparable with a professional body. BVA are I think slightly less than BMA fees and very similar to other professional bodies.

Iain

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 19:53:22 GMT

Ah, the good old vetsurgeon welcome. Really, I could make a fortune selling brickbats and rotten vegetables on here sometimes! (Well, that and cycling gear!)

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Gudrun Ravetz — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 19:53:01 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

Cut the subscription to a reasonable amount so that vets can join without getting the Vet Record etc. Suggest £20. You can then use this to genuinely fight for our profession. 15.000 vets x £20 will give you £300.000, that's quite a lot of cash to allow a couple of full time employees. (See British Cycling - 120.000 members paying £20/year)

For a lot of vets £306 for membership + RCVS + CPD + VDS + BSAVA can almost be a months salary so something has to give especially with so many part time vets now. (and I had this published in the Vet Record ages ago)

I'd pay this, but £306 is too much for me.

Neil

[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback. We are aware that there are a number of things vets pay for and I am also a member of many. Funding models and structure is something that we are reviewing and all ideas are welcome. From the small amount of time I have been at BVA the volume of work would certainly be overwhelming for two members of staff but your point is taken. I am happy to give more detail of daily work.

British Cycling are very good - I used to pay £33 and then more when I was racing plus British Triathlon. All worthy.

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Gudrun Ravetz — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 19:45:47 GMT

Thank you for your support for 40 years. Since graduating I am sure I will have indirectly benefited from your support for the profession so a personal and a BVA thank you.

RE: Value of BVA at £306 a year

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 17:12:06 GMT

[quote user="Gudrun Ravetz"]For many years I probably couldn’t quantify the individual benefit to me but that was never what was important. [/quote]I've not been able to quantify it for the past 40 years but feel that my membership fees in that time have supported the profession enough. So perhaps you can forgive me for thinking of myself now so I can spend the money on something I consider personally more worthwhile.