Part time work

RE: Part time work

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 17:20:21 GMT

When we had a part time vet we split the salary into 6 parts and paid one part for each day Monday to Friday and one part for OOH and weekends. If they were working part days then there would have to be more weighting given to mornings, as that is when we do most work.

If the practice was busy then you could always try and negotiate a fee for work done OOH - may make you feel less resentment if you know you are getting 10% of the fees (or whatever).

As a starting salary I would be looking at above SPVS median as extra qualifications, and then depending on your earnings and work. If a surgery cert holder allows the practice to do more then either negotiate for more money, or again a percentage of the 'advanced' surgery. No reason you couldn't have a higher rate for cert holder surgery (for example).

RE: Part time work

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 17:00:04 GMT

As always, every practice is different and there is never a one-size-fits-all solution. Which takes us full circle...there is not going to be an 'average' hourly rate for a vet!

RE: Part time work

Kate Richardson — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 16:46:00 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Many reasons I guess, including:

- primarily, do you pay the same rate for daytime, weekend, OOH, bank holidays etc?

- do you pay overtime at the same rate, or increased rate, or time off in lieu?

-if it is a quiet day, our vets can do 'their own thing', as long as they are always quickly available. They go shopping, pop home etc. The nurses (paid hourly) cannot.

-if vets have to pop into work to check on inpatients etc, how is that paid? How is that even checked for accuracy/need?

- Nurses are not paid for their lunch break - but almost always take it (or claim overtime/go home early.) Vets are more flexible- one day they'll have 10 mins, another day 2 hours!!!

- for the same reason most 'professionals' are salaried- you do the work that you need to do and get paid a salary to do it.

[/quote]

All good considerations. I guess it has to work on a trust basis regarding how busy it is- most of us part timers work either a shift, so are usually busy through out and there is always 'office work/cpd to be doing if its that quiet. Equally the days that are quiet balance up those days that are mentally busy and you do 1 1/2 vets work during your shift, so their is an element of what goes around comes around. If it's quiet enough to get off early or have a 2 hour lunch break then we would only charge for the hours we are actually working, but I can't remember when I last had a 2 hour lunch break! The nature of being part time usually means you have plenty to catch up on with phone calls, chasing results, researching cases etc etc. If you are part time due to having children then you generally have to leave when you have to leave and similarly popping into check on cases doesn't happen often, may be different if part time due to other reasons? I may phone into the practice to ask about an inpatient case or make occasional calls to owners from home, but it doesn't happen that often, cases get handed over to another vet if necessary, or I deal with them when in next (I work everyday from Tues to Friday so opportunity to do that in my situation). If I do pop in to see a case I don't usually charge my time, unless I end up spending an hour there eg it needs scan or something, but that's just me. Being part time means you have less need to pop out to do your shopping because you have time to do it when not at work!

RE: Part time work

Stephen Courtney — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 16:05:41 GMT

I always thought vets weren't paid by the hour because historically educated professionals were salaried not waged, and most of us do unpaid overtime without even thinking about it.

RE: Part time work

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 14:48:19 GMT

Many reasons I guess, including:

- primarily, do you pay the same rate for daytime, weekend, OOH, bank holidays etc?

- do you pay overtime at the same rate, or increased rate, or time off in lieu?

-if it is a quiet day, our vets can do 'their own thing', as long as they are always quickly available. They go shopping, pop home etc. The nurses (paid hourly) cannot.

-if vets have to pop into work to check on inpatients etc, how is that paid? How is that even checked for accuracy/need?

- Nurses are not paid for their lunch break - but almost always take it (or claim overtime/go home early.) Vets are more flexible- one day they'll have 10 mins, another day 2 hours!!!

- for the same reason most 'professionals' are salaried- you do the work that you need to do and get paid a salary to do it.

RE: Part time work

Kate Richardson — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 14:33:54 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]The hourly rate issue isn't specifically a problem for PT working - it is simply that the nature of the job makes paying vets by the hour pretty difficult for an employer. [/quote]

Why is that?

RE: Part time work

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 14:19:56 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"] I was offered an hourly rate when I returned to work after maternity leave[/quote]

The hourly rate issue isn't specifically a problem for PT working - it is simply that the nature of the job makes paying vets by the hour pretty difficult for an employer.

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]and I get sick pay, holiday pay etc. [/quote]

If this is the case for FT staff, then it would have to be the case for PT staff anyway.

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]However my bosses are exceptionally wonderful[/quote]

Good! However, have you checked that you wouldn't be better off being paid pro-rata?

RE: Part time work

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:50:36 GMT

I'm 100% with Gillian on this. The rate can only reflect the value to the employer.

Wynne

RE: Part time work

Kate Richardson — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:28:22 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]I assumed anyone expecting an hourly rate would be on Locum terms. [/quote]

Nope. I was offered an hourly rate when I returned to work after maternity leave, and I get sick pay, holiday pay etc. However my bosses are exceptionally wonderful

RE: Part time work

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:23:36 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]Take it to the extreme. If you were paid £15 for an hours work, but have to travel 30 minutes each side, would you do that?[/quote]

Have just reread this statement and you have confused me. I assumed you was talking about locums travelling times....but are you comparing travel times for FT vs PT?? If so, that would be wrong.....how long someone is prepared to travel, and how the commute compares to actual hours worked is, frankly, not an employer's problem!

RE: Part time work

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:17:36 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

No but if you factor in travel to and from the practice, then it's not quite the same as a full timer.

Also a few hours a day you won't be getting the breaks that a full timer has.

Take it to the extreme. If you were paid £15 for an hours work, but have to travel 30 minutes each side, would you do that?

[/quote]

ERM....I think we agree????

Locum rates are always going to be higher than employee rates...as you say, locums have higher travel costs, are only paid while they are working, will not get 'quiet days' and will have at least a month or so every year unpaid. Plus no job security. Employees shouldn't be looking for the same hourly rate.

RE: Part time work

Braden Collins — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:15:52 GMT

We have one part time vet with memberships in Surgery. We pay her $45/hour, so is on a similar hourly rate to our other vets, but they have less qualifications

She is the only one in the clinic who doesn't do OOH work, which does cause some resentment but she was employed by the clinic when we purchased it and has refused to do OOH. This is why she is paid slightly less than the other vets, as she's not as "valuable" to us.

to be honest, we wouldn't employ another vet unless they were doing OOH as well, and would pro-rata it for a part timer. If we outsourced our OOH work, that would be a different story, and would happily take a part timer on the same salary pro rata as a full time equivalint. They certainly wouldn't get locum rates or a higher hourly rate, as we wouldn't be prepared to pay a premium for something that would ultimately create a bit more management work (two part timers will take more management time than one full timer).

RE: Part time work

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:08:53 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Which is why I said they'd need to look at a pro-rata salary instead! An employed vet isn't paid hourly![/quote]

No but if you factor in travel to and from the practice, then it's not quite the same as a full timer.

Also a few hours a day you won't be getting the breaks that a full timer has.

Take it to the extreme. If you were paid £15 for an hours work, but have to travel 30 minutes each side, would you do that?

Neil

RE: Part time work

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:04:15 GMT

Which is why I said they'd need to look at a pro-rata salary instead! An employed vet isn't paid hourly!

RE: Part time work

Stephen Courtney — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:01:39 GMT

I assumed anyone expecting an hourly rate would be on Locum terms.

RE: Part time work

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:54:55 GMT

I don't think you should extrapolate from locum fees. Employee rates have to take into account paid holidays, sickness, CPD, job security, more tax obligations etc. I think few FT vets will be on the equivalent of locum rates...so why should a PT vet be?

RE: Part time work

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:46:27 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]I appreciate in a small practice that does its own OOH there is little point having someone who can't take their share of the weight. But someone who can only work a few hours a week surely can find a suitable niche without that being an issue.[/quote]

Can of worms but here goes

I worked 6 years in a practice and we did 1 in 5 nights and worked 5 in 12 W/E where a very good lady vet worked 3 days a week without doing OOH work. I resented that, as feel that if you work part time in a practice you should do OOH pro rata.

Neil

PS £25/hour seems reasonable / Locums are £240-£270 a day for a 10 hour day

RE: Part time work

Stephen Courtney — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 11:46:31 GMT

The weighting that OOH has in determining salary is a tricky one. I think it depends overall on how onerous that OOH is. In a large busy practice a night duty might be extremely hard work - ours are - while in a smaller practice a night duty may well pass by uneventfully. I've work s in both environments.

I don't have the stamina for a full on 12 hour night shift but I've never resented seeing animals OOH if they needed a vet. The problem is that my definition of need and the clients definition are not always in the same area ' I couldn't sleep for worry so after waiting all day I'll call you at 3am' doesn't do my vocation much good.

I appreciate in a small practice that does its own OOH there is little point having someone who can't take their share of the weight. But someone who can only work a few hours a week surely can find a suitable niche without that being an issue. Surgery is expensive, the work a surgeon does is valuable to a practice so why wouldn't that person be paid properly?

RE: Part time work

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 11:07:14 GMT

I'd say a veterinary surgeon who's prepared to do ooh is worth an extra 20/25% to the practice.

Wynne

RE: Part time work

Stephen Courtney — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 10:38:45 GMT

Try looking for Locum work at hours that suit you and reduce the fee accordingly. If pro data is based on permanent staff on the OOH rota and you only work a few hours a week it seems likely it wouldn't be worthwhile.

We have a vet who works two mornings a week just operating and frankly could use another one or two like her - if you ask around you may well fine a practice or two who would bite your arm off for a few hours on a regular basis.

RE: Part time work

An On MRCVS — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 10:31:03 GMT

The thing I'm struggling with is the out of hours component. If you had 2 vets with same experience working the same 40 hour week but one does one night on call a week and 1 weekend in 7 on call and the other does not do any out of hours work then what percentage would you pay the second vet?

RE: Part time work

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 09:39:29 GMT

We pay our staff on a pro-rata basis, so they will be on the equivalent of a full time vet with the same level of experience.

It would be very difficult to give 'a figure' for hourly rate as, like with full time work, your pay will vary depending on where you work, what type of work you'll be doing, availablility for OOH etc etc.

My advice, therefore, is to decide what you would want if you were to take the job full time - and then work out what percentage of that you're due!

RE: Part time work

Kate Richardson — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 09:37:31 GMT

Send me a private message