Paris

RE: Paris

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 27 Nov 2015 17:20:05 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Francisco. You're in excellent company - myself and Nigel Farage.

[/quote]

I've been blessed

RE: Paris

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 27 Nov 2015 15:11:57 GMT

Francisco. You're in excellent company - myself and Nigel Farage. Farage has pointed out that Cameron doesn't know what he's doing with his foreign (lack of) policy. Two years ago, he wanted to bomb President Assad's forces, and arm the Syrian rebels. Who were the rebels he wanted to arm? Actually ISIL. Now he wants to bomb them, but not support Assad, so who does he think will run the country? Does he think British troops can be left there forever - at immense cost to the poor poor taxpayer?

Wynne

RE: Paris

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 27 Nov 2015 08:52:56 GMT

I guess by now everyone here knows how I feel about air strikes in Syria. But amid all the questions... everyone is discussing if these attacks are justified or not, but not many about what is the expected ends to meet. Is deploying this military force not helping Assad anyway? If you 'really' manage to hit the expected targets, I guess he has now one less enemy to fight against.

Remember this pic?

I hope JC allows a free vote, honestly. Not to make anyone a target, but so the public can see how their MPs feel about international affairs.

RE: Paris

Francisco Gomez — Wed, 25 Nov 2015 15:18:21 GMT

Vladimir has been stabbed, sure. But 'in the back'? I don't think so. He knows perfectly what he's doing. If live by the sword ...

RE: Paris

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 20:11:11 GMT

Turkey is shooting Russian planes. Cameron has said we may be at war with Syria within a week, but hasn't specified exactly who he means by Syria - he's daft enough to start a war with ISIL, and Assad at the same time. No-one other than Prince Charles and myself seem prepared to even discuss the root cause of the world-wide migrant problem. Very very worrying.

Wynne

RE: Paris

ruths — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 12:57:25 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Anybody see the program on C4 last night about the British women supporting ISIL who support jihadis and preach hatred, segregation and extremism in front of children. It was both scary and extremely brave of the undercover reporter. It gave little hope for a secure future.

[/quote]

yes- I caught the tail end of it.

very scary

RE: Paris

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 11:27:17 GMT

That makes securing our borders even more imperitive

Wynne

RE: Paris

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 10:35:36 GMT

RE: Paris

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 09:04:57 GMT

I hope you all listened to Prince Charles

Wynne

RE: Paris

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 07:29:55 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

no doubt Francisco would have been along tomorrow to explain it.

[/quote]

No need, ruths is doing a fine job

RE: Paris

ruths — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 06:48:01 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="ruths"]

Isil wasnt as powerful in 2011 and 2012 but he were being funded and supported by a number of people and these people will have given them arms. Saudi Arabia are implicated in the rise of isil and they are on the list of people we export weaponry to.

i don't think you need to really be a conspiracy theorist to make the connections.

Isil have't bought arms directly from the UK, but there was a channel by which arms reached that part of the world from our shores.

[/quote]

I thought it was something like that, and no doubt Francisco would have been along tomorrow to explain it.

Saudi Arabia is a pretty filthy country (in its laws and government, I mean) but we aren't actually at war with them.

[/quote]

nope- we are best mates with them!

Last time I looked I saw Hameron at his obsequious greasy best, shaking hands and standing together for photos, whilst negotiating large deals.

Our ongoing relationship with the Saudis is disgusting given their history of funding the people who attack us. who don't have a principle left, not one shred.

What sickened me more was the recent relentless media portrayal of corbyn and his dealing with the IRa at the same time as the saudi visit. It's my understanding that corbyn and people like John major were talking with the IRA to get them round a tablemto talk about peace. The Good Friday agreement was the result of these efforts. When we saw pictures of the Saudis shaking hands with our prime minister, the talk was of arms sales, not peace.

RE: Paris

ruths — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 06:39:55 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="ruths"]i agree with some of what you have said but the bloody Sunday killings were people who were running away. the majority of them were shot from behind. I think it's rather disingenuous to call it a 'mistake'. the people were killed over a space of ten or more minutes. It was t a quick thing, just one person with a twitchy finger.[/quote]

It wasn't premeditated murder, either.

The IRA murderers have been given an immunity from prosecution or whatever it's called. I think that is appalling, but it's done now. Let it lie. So it's just ridiculous, wicked, pointless, to attempt to prosecute some poor old bloke who was a squaddie in "Bloody Sunday".

[/quote]

i tend to agree. I think that there should be more focus on the two inquiries - one was a whitewash and the other wasn't published. The gvmnt of the time deliberately covered up the lies that were told around the motives of the people who died. Apologise for the klongs and move on and then tackle the corruption in the heart of the gvmnt that allowed (and encouraged) those lies to be propogated.

RE: Paris

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 23:43:33 GMT

It wasn't premeditated murder, either.

RE: Paris

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 23:33:32 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]

i don't think you need to really be a conspiracy theorist to make the connections.

Isil have't bought arms directly from the UK, but there was a channel by which arms reached that part of the world from our shores.

[/quote]

I thought it was something like that, and no doubt Francisco would have been along tomorrow to explain it.

Saudi Arabia is a pretty filthy country (in its laws and government, I mean) but we aren't actually at war with them.

RE: Paris

ruths — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 23:22:30 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Instead, Sergeant Alexander Blackman is in prison for simply doing his job .[/quote]

You can't get round the fact that he shot dead a wounded prisoner. I'm not saying he should have been imprisoned, even that he should have been found guilty, but he did do the deed.

[/quote]The rest of this is going round in circles but I picked up on this one. He wasn't doing his job, his job is not to kill prisoners even as an act of mercy, albeit what he did was in the fog or war and the heat of battle. If every serviceman was banged up for making a mistake or exercising a lack of good judgement under stress then half would be behind bars including a good number of senior officers not to mention political leaders. By many definitions Winston Churchill was a war criminal. Sgt Blackman was guilty and will probably live with that guilt for the rest of his life and probably have severe post traumatic stress and psychological problems for the rest of his life. Chucking him out of the army would have been enough punishment there are no doubts many more who did what he did or worse and have not been found out.

As for the Bloody Sunday killings, unless they are going to backtrack on the agreement that gave paramilitary murderers freedom from prosecution and try them then they've got to let sleeping dogs lie. The IRA and loyalist paramilitary members deliberately set out to kill, the soldiers made a mistake - there is a big difference.

[/quote]

i agree with some of what you have said but the bloody Sunday killings were people who were running away. the majority of them were shot from behind. I think it's rather disingenuous to call it a 'mistake'. the people were killed over a space of ten or more minutes. It was t a quick thing, just one person with a twitchy finger.

RE: Paris

ruths — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 23:09:56 GMT

Funnily enough, we are supplying both yemen and saudi.

RE: Paris

ruths — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 23:09:01 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]how?[/quote]

I see nothing there about UK manufacturers supplying arms to IS (ISIL, ISIS, the Caliphate, whatever)

[/quote]

if you look at the dates you will realise that the list is 2 yrs ago.

the list is of the FCO countries of concern.

i don't think you need to really be a conspiracy theorist to make the connections.

Isil have't bought arms directly from the UK, but there was a channel by which arms reached that part of the world from our shores.

RE: Paris

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 23:08:02 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]So if you sell heroin to a dealer you're not to blame for the kid who gets hooked...[/quote]

Well I sort of think I see what you might be getting at now, but why don't you explain yourself in plain language?

RE: Paris

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 23:04:48 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]how?[/quote]

I see nothing there about UK manufacturers supplying arms to IS (ISIL, ISIS, the Caliphate, whatever)

[/quote]

So if you sell heroin to a dealer you're not to blame for the kid who gets hooked...

RE: Paris

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 22:59:59 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]how?[/quote]

I see nothing there about UK manufacturers supplying arms to IS (ISIL, ISIS, the Caliphate, whatever)

RE: Paris

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 21:17:10 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]I guess that if you look for something in the internet, you can just about find any answer if you want, true or otherwise.... [/quote]

Your "find" just confirms what I said.

[/quote]

how?

RE: Paris

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 21:11:02 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]I guess that if you look for something in the internet, you can just about find any answer if you want, true or otherwise.... [/quote]

Your "find" just confirms what I said.

RE: Paris

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 20:40:55 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Nhombokisheni"]and who manufactures those weapons they have..[/quote]

Not us.

[/quote]

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2012/jul/13/defence-military-uk-arms-exports-middle-east-interactive I guess that if you look for something in the internet, you can just about find any answer if you want, true or otherwise....

RE: Paris

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 17:18:30 GMT

Sgt Blackman acted in the heat of battle I bet if the jury had been composed entirely of D Day veterans, he would have been acquited. He would then have been truly tried by his peers, i e his equals.

CriminalBlair sent him into an illegal war in cold blood.

Wynne

RE: Paris

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 17:09:36 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Instead, Sergeant Alexander Blackman is in prison for simply doing his job .[/quote]

You can't get round the fact that he shot dead a wounded prisoner. I'm not saying he should have been imprisoned, even that he should have been found guilty, but he did do the deed.