Veterinary nurses

RE: Veterinary nurses

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 09:08:55 GMT

[quote user="Tricia Goulden"]The money is a side effect of having happy motivated staff............. energised by having targets[/quote]The first part of that sentence is true and is self-fulfilling, happy staff feel part of the business and want to promote it and will die for you. But by setting targets you immediately create a situation which could generate stress and therefore unhappy staff and lose client goodwill as there is a danger they will start pushing stuff unnecessarily to reach targets - one of the major reasons clients jump ship to me from corporates. Anyway if I set targets and told them to start flogging stuff they didn't think was efficacious/necessary they would tell me off, and I wouldn't want it any other way.

Perhaps I'm in the minority but I became a vet to care for animals not to make a fortune, so long as the wolf is not at the door I'm happy and my nurses say the same. In fact my head nurse told me she didn't want a pay rise as we're not doing as well as last year, she got one anyway because she deserves it.

RE: Veterinary nurses

Tricia Goulden — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 07:10:51 GMT

That depends on their role which is determined by your organisational views, expectations and set up. Also on the needs and aspirations of the individual nurse. No for cleaning kennels, yes to monitoring anaesthesia, yes and no to post operative recovery depending on the case, yes and no to reception duties depending on whether they are simply making appointments and taking payments or giving professional, informed advice.Definitely yes to nurse consultations such as routine six monthly geriatric clinics where a knowledge of anatomy, physiology, communication, practice management and more are vital.

RE: Veterinary nurses

Anthony Todd — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 00:20:07 GMT

[quote user="Tricia Goulden"]Knowledge thrills me and I love the challenge of encouraging and supporting my nurses to learn whatever they need to learn to pass their exams.[/quote]

Is "whatever they need to learn to pass their exams" relevant to their subsequent duties, after the euphoria of exam results has passed and they are back in a practical day-to-day veterinary practice?

RE: Veterinary nurses

Tricia Goulden — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 20:26:51 GMT

Knowledge thrills me and I love the challenge of encouraging and supporting my nurses to learn whatever they need to learn to pass their exams. Very happy to have a 100% first time pass rate with my students. The current NPL obliges us to support our student nurses in acquiring all the practical skills needed for their role. I have a high regard of and great respect for veterinary nurses.

RE: Veterinary nurses

Anthony Todd — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 20:12:56 GMT

[quote user="Tricia Goulden"] Isn't having happy, engaged, motivated staff the purpose?[/quote]

Oh dear, of course it is. I just didn't understand the financial example.

I would add that passing complicated and totally irrelevant exam questions doesn't make staff happy, engaged or motivated , in fact the opposite; and I sincerely hope the powers that be who are responsible for setting these sort of syllabi begin to realise this.

Some of the great nurses I had gave up qualifying because of the degree standard [and that's Veterinary degree standard!] knowledge they had to regurgitate in order to pass.

RE: Veterinary nurses

Tricia Goulden — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 20:00:35 GMT

I am not sure you do understand. The money is a side effect of having happy motivated staff energised by having targets that they are involved in setting and are fulfilled by achieving. The money is the icing on the cake. Isn't having happy, engaged, motivated staff the purpose?

RE: Veterinary nurses

Anthony Todd — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 19:09:04 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]Incidentally ref the numbers from my Head Nurse, we wanted there to be annual sales of £6,000 for that service.[/quote]

Now I understand......

RE: Veterinary nurses

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 18:40:40 GMT

And quite a few others as well

Wynne

RE: Veterinary nurses

grumpyoldman — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 17:51:20 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

in many hospitals the qualified nurses are too important to bother about mundane tasks like ensuring the patients are fed/hydrated/bed-panned.

[/quote]

you mean like mid staffs? reminded me of one flew over the cuckoos nest .

RE: Veterinary nurses

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 17:24:40 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Blimey, I think even Martin, and he's brighter and smarter than any of us, would have difficulty working out WTF that means? [/quote]

Blimey, d'ya fink so?

[/quote]Don't worry Jon, I believe he was being sarcastic, but I'm always happy to accept praise if it is well intended.

RE: Veterinary nurses

J G Wray — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 16:51:22 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Blimey, I think even Martin, and he's brighter and smarter than any of us, would have difficulty working out WTF that means? [/quote]

Blimey, d'ya fink so?

Our Nurse and Reception team set themselves targets for their areas of responsibility, ranging from cleaning routines to fee earning for the nurses and ranging from client recruitment to HPC sales for Reception. These are, predictably, SMART. They suggest them, we agree, they set and run them. Training is used to help the projects and system comes out of it.

Isn't that how it should be done?

Incidentally ref the numbers from my Head Nurse, we wanted there to be annual sales of £6,000 for that service. Well, how wrong are we going to be, in a good way?

RE: Veterinary nurses

grumpyoldman — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 16:50:54 GMT

It would be a funny old world if everyone was the same, we just sell medicine and surgery.

RE: Veterinary nurses

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 16:35:46 GMT

RVNs and receptioists are an important part of any practice, but my worry about graduate VNs is we could go down the human route. Since SRNs /RGNs were replaced by graduate nurses, in many hospitals the qualified nurses are too important to bother about mundane tasks like ensuring the patients are fed/hydrated/bed-panned.

Wynne

RE: Veterinary nurses

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 16:16:51 GMT

As regards to client goodwill, the receptionists are the most important people in the practice.

RE: Veterinary nurses

Anthony Todd — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 15:15:06 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

Since introducing charges mid June, by the end of today we will have total sales of just over £3300.

In September sales were £810

In October sales will be £1065..."

Targets were set considerably lower, which means we were unrealistic, in a good way.

[/quote]

Blimey, I think even Martin, and he's brighter and smarter than any of us, would have difficulty working out WTF that means?

RE: Veterinary nurses

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 14:22:11 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]Should they be equals ? no . They do not generate any substantial goodwill with their diagnosis surgery and treatment. If someone can generate sufficient goodwill to be important by glad handing selling food and clipping nails ,your working in a pet shop , that is not for me. [/quote]Well Mr Grumpy, never forget that your nurses and lay staff are the first point of contact, if they don't impress and generate goodwill the client/patient may never get to see you so your goodwill is worth squat diddly.

I could not function without my nurses and in that respect they are not just equals they are more important than me!

RE: Veterinary nurses

J G Wray — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 14:15:31 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"] They do not generate any substantial goodwill with their diagnosis surgery and treatment.[/quote]

Blimey, are you measuring their performance to see what they achieve?

An extract from an email from my Head Nurse ref one of the services we offer:

"..

Since introducing charges mid June, by the end of today we will have total sales of just over £3300.

In September sales were £810

In October sales will be £1065..."

Targets were set considerably lower, which means we were unrealistic, in a good way.

RE: Veterinary nurses

grumpyoldman — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 14:04:36 GMT

[quote user="Tricia Goulden"]How do you view/treat the veterinary nurses in your team?[/quote]

There is no doubt that experienced qualified nurses are considerably more use ,outside the consulting room than a new graduate.

I prefer to see them as technicians, I think that is a better way of looking at it than the bunny huggers and kennel maids idea . As you business grows past the 20 employees mark you can divide tasks up better ,but it is still important than everyone can and is able to do everything.

Should they be equals ? no . They do not generate any substantial goodwill with their diagnosis surgery and treatment. If someone can generate sufficient goodwill to be important by glad handing selling food and clipping nails ,your working in a pet shop , that is not for me.

RE: Veterinary nurses

Tricia Goulden — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 13:26:14 GMT

Indeed

RE: Veterinary nurses

J G Wray — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 13:07:42 GMT

[quote user="Tricia Goulden"]No Jon, you know it isn't.[/quote]

Funny old world

RE: Veterinary nurses

Tricia Goulden — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 13:00:06 GMT

No Jon, you know it isn't.

RE: Veterinary nurses

J G Wray — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 11:39:01 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]a simple receptionist [/quote]

Nice

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]in a big hospital you can have receptionists, cleaners, kennel maids, nurses, senior nurses but in general practice everyone has to muck in[/quote]

We're not a big hospital , but all members of staff have job profiles and descriptions and report to their line managers. Training is tailored to role here - isn't that normal?

RE: Veterinary nurses

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 10:55:48 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Indeed, so why on earth do vet nurses need to know, and be examined on, the insertions of ALL the muscles in a dog??[/quote]Fook, I don't know them and probably never did. How I managed to pass anatomy with a distinction and the comment that my answer to the 3 hour single question paper was that it was the best they'd ever seen, God only knows, it certainly wasn't my knowledge alone!

RE: Veterinary nurses

Anthony Todd — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 10:38:27 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Why would anyone want it any other way? [/quote]

Indeed, so why on earth do vet nurses need to know, and be examined on, the insertions of ALL the muscles in a dog??

The drawings were permanently on the training centre wall...

This is a recurrent thread and I agree with all this post said. To be accused of turbo-posting yet again, and remember I'm well out of it but.....

Some of the stuff they are taught is just plain stupid and a lot of it is unnecessary even for a VS [see above re muscle insertions!]

Doesn't seem to emphasise"nursing", y'know animals recovering from GA need to be turned or sat on their sternum etc. etc. although, in my experience the unqualified staff were sort of expected do all that mundane stuff...

Don't start me on qualified nurses on reception. With all this essential training and knowledge a request for an appointment is followed by a 10 minute in depth phone consult. often ending with a veterinary "well polydipsia may just be due to the hot weather, so if it isn't better in a week ring us back...."

RE: Veterinary nurses

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 09:10:28 GMT

[quote user="Tricia Goulden"]nurses can be expected to work on reception and spend a lot of time cleaning on a much lower salary.[/quote]As Michael and Bob have implied: this is part of their job and they accept this when they are employed. If they expected to do the same jobs and be paid the same as vets then they would be erm....vets!

However, it is important that they are made to feel valued as part of a team and given opportunities to increase their experience. I involve mine in the decision making and often ask their opinion on how we should proceed, especially in cases where moral decision has to be made. Sometimes we vets get so tied up with the diagnostic and surgical quandaries that we fail to see the wood for the trees. I've had nurses who would be quite capable of performing surgery if they were allowed as I'm sure most would be, we are not born with exclusive surgical skills just because we're vets.

Like Bob if the nurses are busy then I clean the cages, answer the phone, man reception, sell stuff, discharge patients whatever...no task should be below anyone. There are too many vets who treat nursing staff as a lower caste - they find the nurses don't stay long. Equally I've had a few nurses who considered these tasks were below them and clearly had a rose tinted view of veterinary practice - they either bucked up or didn't last long either.