Vets leaving profession

RE: Vets leaving profession

Bob Russell — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 13:01:41 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]How daft is it that there are steps being taken to put veterinary surgeons back on the skills shortage list despite training large numbers and importing more![/quote]

I suspect it makes it easier to employ non-EU vets e.g Australia/ New Zealand/ US and that is a factor?

[/quote]

I, for one would welcome them back with open arms!!

RE: Vets leaving profession

Anthony Todd — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 09:20:45 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]Sorry, that's not quite what I was asking.[/quote]

True, sorry, I wonder if that data is available at the RC?

Still, that wouldn't explain the obvious spike in 2002ish and after or was there a dramatic rise in graduates then? It would have to be massive though.

I wonder if the data collection process was changed?

Don't know how much I can get from the RC.

RE: Vets leaving profession

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 09:02:46 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]

It would be useful to know the total numbers of vets in each age bracket so we could see the proportion of vets leaving.

[/quote]

The ages are in the key to the right; the total is the big one.

There is another bit on the same file, which hopefully will appear, [I have a nerd] which charts gender.....

[/quote]

Sorry, that's not quite what I was asking. What I would like to know is the total number of vets registered with the RCVS in each age category each year, so we can see what proportion left and what proportion remained as vets.

RE: Vets leaving profession

J G Wray — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 07:36:54 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]t may turn out that they are all sad[/quote]

"Sad" is a qualitative almost existential judgement of a reason for leaving the profession. It is irrelevant, because it isn't a reason.

Whatever the reasons for leaving the profession, there is no benchmarking going on here against comparable groups of people to see what happens elsewhere in society. Even then there is nothing which says these people need to be retained, that this loss is a leak which needs to be fixed.

Apart from those leaving the profession because they are required to do so by a Disciplinary process or death there will be an element of choice, which may range from a fully evaluated choice to one influenced by circumstance e.g. poor health. Whatever that reason there is no judgement to be made upon it and there may be no action required by anyone.

The data is a curio.

RE: Vets leaving profession

Virginia Campbell — Wed, 14 Oct 2015 00:15:22 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]What concerns me is breakdown of UK trained vets leaving the profession; the overall figures probably have a lot of noise from foreign vets who come to work for a short period then leave the country but not necessarily the profession.[/quote]

Yep, depends on the £/euro exchange rate, the amount of TB testing work available, changes in numbers of new grads being turned out by non-UK unis and jobs available in their own countries. When I graduated in Dublin in 2003 a lot of us went to the mainland UK but the numbers changed from year to year depending on the changing relative value of sheep and cattle at the time and the amount of TB testing available in each place (dictated whether some employers decided to take on an extra person or not)

RE: Vets leaving profession

Anthony Todd — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:57:37 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]Why? This data is just a curio, because there is nothing defining what it is "supposed" to be. Why should people leaving the profession be sad or bad? They may be leaving and going on to more fulfilling existences or ones which have greater significance for society than just being a veterinary surgeon.[/quote]

Surprising coming from one of the sharpest, most incisive posters.

That's why I published it, you all want evidence; what we don't know is why!

It may turn out that they are all sad or it may be that they were mostly female wanting to have children or whatever....

The RCVS may be the best to find out. Perhaps a survey finding out not when, or how many, but why.

The gender chart may give more info.

One of the vets working for me became a photographer......

RE: Vets leaving profession

J G Wray — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:23:46 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

It's confirmed 2 things I've thought for a long time - that more veterinary surgeons are leaving the profession, and that they're doing so at a younger age.

Very sad.

Wynne

[/quote]

Why? This data is just a curio, because there is nothing defining what it is "supposed" to be. Why should people leaving the profession be sad or bad? They may be leaving and going on to more fulfilling existences or ones which have greater significance for society than just being a veterinary surgeon.

RE: Vets leaving profession

Anthony Todd — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:09:33 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Kent"]the after effects of foot and mouth?[/quote]

Yeah, but the number leaving stayed high and didn't just spike?

Was it when they introduced student loans and vets found they had to earn more[to pay the loan back]??

Availability of cheap[er] European vets??

More graduates from the new vet schools??

RE: Vets leaving profession

Anthony Todd — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:04:45 GMT

[quote user="Liz white"]and those women just never came back ?[/quote]

The gender chart should help.

RE: Vets leaving profession

Anthony Todd — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:03:26 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

What concerns me is breakdown of UK trained vets leaving the profession; the overall figures probably have a lot of noise from foreign vets who come to work for a short period then leave the country but not necessarily the profession.

[/quote]

True, there used to be loads of Aussies South Africans and Kiwis that locummed in the 70s 80s and then went back when the money [and exchange rate dropped]

RE: Vets leaving profession

Anthony Todd — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:00:55 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]

It would be useful to know the total numbers of vets in each age bracket so we could see the proportion of vets leaving.

[/quote]

The ages are in the key to the right; the total is the big one.

There is another bit on the same file, which hopefully will appear, [I have a nerd] which charts gender.....

RE: Vets leaving profession

Liz w — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 22:11:06 GMT

Was 2002 the year when the RCVS started the non-working membership category ( can't remember the proper name)? I wonder if this stopped some people from 'keeping their hand in' when on maternity leave, for example, and those women just never came back ?

RE: Vets leaving profession

Stephen Courtney — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 22:04:16 GMT

I am sure most of the leavers in that chart are foreign vets who have just gone home - there's no benefit to paying to be MRCVS if you don't work in the UK.

RE: Vets leaving profession

Nicola Cole — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:01:27 GMT

There's fewer young vets leaving the profession now then there has been for the past 8 years...maybe something has changed for the better!

But on a serious note, knowing percentages rather than actual number leaving would be useful if that data is readily available?

RE: Vets leaving profession

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 19:39:38 GMT

Also, the 60-69 bracket is creeping upward...the 'baby boomers' starting to retire?

RE: Vets leaving profession

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 19:27:45 GMT

Clare . -exactly what I was thinking- and hopefully the fall in numbers more recently is dur to more flexible working becoming available.

RE: Vets leaving profession

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 19:23:24 GMT

Isn't it just increasing numbers of women in their late twenties and thirties having children ?

RE: Vets leaving profession

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 18:32:35 GMT

Anthony (Todd)

Threatening to post-mortem a Newbie isn't nice!

Wynne

RE: Vets leaving profession

Rob Loxley — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 18:27:20 GMT

RE: Vets leaving profession

Rob Loxley — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 18:16:26 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]How daft is it that there are steps being taken to put veterinary surgeons back on the skills shortage list despite training large numbers and importing more![/quote]

I suspect it makes it easier to employ non-EU vets e.g Australia/ New Zealand/ US and that is a factor?

RE: Vets leaving profession

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 17:05:52 GMT

There was a slight dip in 2001, which could have been people putting off retirement because of Foot and Mouth, but it's nothing like enough to account for the surge in 2002. Maybe the supine attitude of the "leaders" of our profession drove some ditherers out in disgust.

Wynne

RE: Vets leaving profession

Thomas Johnson — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 17:04:03 GMT

It would be useful to know the total numbers of vets in each age bracket so we could see the proportion of vets leaving.

RE: Vets leaving profession

Anthony Todd — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 16:54:39 GMT

I'll PM you.

RE: Vets leaving profession

Nigel Davies — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 16:46:10 GMT

Wonder if Commonwealth vets left after Foot & Mouth (when did Home Office tighten up on employment of non EU vets?)

RE: Vets leaving profession

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 16:45:12 GMT

[quote user="Andrew Kent"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]What happened in 2002?[/quote]

My thought exactly.

[/quote]

the after effects of foot and mouth?

[/quote]

Good call. A lot of European vets came over and registered to help out