How insulting can a colleague be?

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 09:28:49 GMT

[quote user="sam haig (Aldridge) "]

there is a very active facebook group called 'beyond Cesar Milan' where anyone asking advice re behavioural issues is recommended to have a vet check (good) including full bloods and thyroid panel.... Maybe they've been on something similar?

[/quote]Well anything would be better than going to see Cesar Milan!

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Anthony Todd — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:42:48 GMT

[quote user="ChrisBVSc"]

We keep getting people in via a dog trainer who has started recommending the vet runs full bloods including the whole barrage of thyroid tests on completely healthy young dogs with obvious behavioural problems. (With the underlying feeling that we don't know what we're on about). Must have read this book!

[/quote]

But is there any evidence at all that hyperthyroidism is associated with aggression [apart from my boxer, of course]?

If there is; well then?

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Anthony Todd — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:39:22 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I've been hyperthyroid. Wouldn't recommend it[/quote]

You'll never know, it didn't do the boxer much harm, you might have been world champion.... but, I agree, not for most of us.

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

ChrisBVSc — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 16:31:06 GMT

[quote user="Will McMullan"]

Ditto Chris. Frustrating when faced with a young collie with severe nervous aggression that has never been socialised and the owner won't even entertain a behaviourist. But the 'holistic' vet says it's definitely the thyroid...

[/quote]

Pleased to hear I'm not the only one getting this.. it's becoming quite annoying! (Although at least the owner I had yesterday who brought it up was very much on my side and agreed all signs point towards a blatant behavioural issue!) Unfortunately it's just another thing to add to the list alongside the raw food Nazism and dubious neutering opinions (and they are opinions, presented as fact to the owner with a general anti-vet vibe). Rant over!

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Lucy Fleming — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 16:15:13 GMT

I don't mind people wanting the test done, as long as they accept the (negative) diagnosis!

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

sam haig (Aldridge) — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 14:57:58 GMT

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Will McMullan — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 14:57:13 GMT

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

ChrisBVSc — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 14:45:51 GMT

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Robin Grimmer — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 13:04:30 GMT

I would argue the opposite. I think it's overdiagnosed. I've seen many dogs with a fairly iffy diagnosis of hypothyroidism on the basis of a low T4 and not a lot else.

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

J G Wray — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 12:45:51 GMT

[quote user="Robert Falconer-Taylor"]This book and her previous one, 'Thyroid epidemic' are top-rated sellers[/quote]

"Mein Kampf" sold pretty well. Some here may have the odd copy tucked away. Doesn't mean it will lead to much, but on the other hand....

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 10:52:59 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]I understood that thyroxin "supplement" was one way of losing weight by increasing the metabolic rate.[/quote]

I've been hyperthyroid. Wouldn't recommend it.

[/quote]My younger daughter would agree, although in hindsight she was pleased with the weight loss.

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Bob Russell — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 15:58:52 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Robert Falconer-Taylor"]This book and her previous one, 'Thyroid epidemic' are top-rated sellers!![/quote]

Popular books about how all doctors, vets, scientists and so on are stupid or charlatans are always good sellers.

So are slightly weird popular books about pets.

This one combines both qualities.

[/quote]

As per our antipodean friend and his love of commercial pet food. It is a good income stream for those pandering to the semi-educated!

If in doubt blame someone and cash in on it!!!

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 15:58:00 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]I understood that thyroxin "supplement" was one way of losing weight by increasing the metabolic rate.[/quote]

I've been hyperthyroid. Wouldn't recommend it.

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 15:56:19 GMT

I understood that thyroxin "supplement" was one way of losing weight by increasing the metabolic rate.

I believe a famous boxer was on it for some time.

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 15:47:07 GMT

[quote user="Robert Falconer-Taylor"]This book and her previous one, 'Thyroid epidemic' are top-rated sellers!![/quote]

Popular books about how all doctors, vets, scientists and so on are stupid or charlatans are always good sellers.

So are slightly weird popular books about pets.

This one combines both qualities.

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 15:36:47 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] but I put my hands up and confess that I was caught out with one obese dog that was chronically lame that failed to respond to treatment for its lameness. [/quote]

Only one?

After all, none of us know what we've missed...and never will!

(Only teasing...I'm sure we're all better at diagnosing hypoT4 then the book suggests. But some people make themselves look better by insulting others. Doesn't usually end well though, as the public has a way of seeing through the BS eventually.)

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 10:44:30 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]Dodds is fairly insistent that almost any vaguely unwell dog has hypothyroidism, and that only her lab is able to correctly diagnose it. Apparently all the other labs are using incorrect reference ranges.[/quote]That does throw a different light on things!

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 10:41:59 GMT

I suspect you may not have come across Dr Dodds before? Dogs with hypothyroidism certainly exist (and I agree, testing dogs that are failing to lose weight under a managed diet plan is a good idea) - but Dodds is fairly insistent that almost any vaguely unwell dog has hypothyroidism, and that only her lab is able to correctly diagnose it. Apparently all the other labs are using incorrect reference ranges.

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Aine Seavers — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 10:36:25 GMT

The only dog who failed to lose wt on hills rd for me was hypothyroid- I tell all my clients that if fails to lose wt on wt loss premium food then we blood test- only one but it didnt move a kg- then the wt stripped off it on the levo-thyroxine.

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 10:31:10 GMT

You had to read an entire book written by Jean Dodds? You have my sympathies.

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 10:30:56 GMT

Robert, it doesn't strike me as being that insulting, there is more than a grain of truth.

Despite my dinovet years I consider myself to be near the cutting edge of veterinary science but I put my hands up and confess that I was caught out with one obese dog that was chronically lame that failed to respond to treatment for its lameness. The owners are also obese and I sadly stereotyped them and just believed that it was their failure to control the dogs weight like their own with correct dieting that was the problem despite them buying bags of Obesity Control diet.

They requested a referral for the lameness, the referral vet suggested it might be hypothyroid and so we tested and it was. It has been treated appropriately now, the weight has come off and the lameness improved. There were no other classical symptoms of hypothyroidism but my own blinkered, biased view prevented me from considering it and even more sad I felt more disappointment than guilt that it wasn't purely the owner's fault.

RE: How insulting can a colleague be?

Aine Seavers — Wed, 30 Sep 2015 10:20:21 GMT

I have been following 115 Basenji for close to 10 yrs- 3 turned out to be hypot4- that is on serial cTSH.TT4, dynamic rhTSH testings and then thryoid histology on post mortem when they died-at 15yrs!, with me actively looking for the disease! Included are elderly dogs tested at an old age for TGAAA which should so not be done- came back 103% postitive from the lab- I argued dog was normal- 7 years later- at elderly age-still not hypot4!. It drives me nuts when healthy dogs are thryoid tested- esp when there are thyroxine responsive conditions that are not hypothyroidism, when drug trials are not always safe etc.