Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

J G Wray — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 20:25:36 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]

The ship was floating, its now sailing with direction

[/quote]

This is not a test. Direction is good and implies purpose. Do you feel like there is a degree of control, whilst still preserving your clinical autonomy?

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Kate Richardson — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 17:39:20 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]What do you like about the programme?[/quote]

The ship was floating, its now sailing with direction

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

J G Wray — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 15:42:13 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]Vet Dynamics are UK based but run by Ozzies funnily enough, our practice is currently going through a programme with them and its good[/quote]

What do you like about the programme?

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Kate Richardson — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 13:24:21 GMT

Vet Dynamics are UK based but run by Ozzies funnily enough, our practice is currently going through a programme with them and its good

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Braden Collins — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 13:12:51 GMT

Australian based so unfortunately not going to be able to help in the UK.

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 12:03:47 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

Are you in the UK? Can you name the company.

We used a company and the results were not relevant or helpful at all.......

[/quote]

On Switch will offer this to vets in the UK. I read some of their stuff on Facebook and Twitter, but not a user myself.

http://www.onswitch.co.uk/en/

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Anthony Todd — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 10:22:39 GMT

[quote user="Braden Collins"]the company that does our training.[/quote]

Are you in the UK? Can you name the company.

We used a company and the results were not relevant or helpful at all.......

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Braden Collins — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 05:28:42 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Braden Collins"] It also means we save a lot of time on the phone and drop the price sensitive clients straight away. 93% of phone calls to our clinics result in an appointment or procedure being booked. [/quote]

Sounds a very valuable parameter to me, except that it might mean your "headline" fees are too low?

My understanding is that potential clients ring around for directly comparable prices like spays, vaccinations etc. ["headline" prices] so your percentage may not indicate your fee level accurately.[see above]

Sounds like you also have very good telephonists!!!

I wonder if any other practices record this information; sounds very very useful, at all sorts of level.

I've had "telephonists" who would have had a really really low percentage!

[/quote]

We've had some training with our staff and have test calls made by the company that does our training.

It's been a very worth while experience.

We have the highest headline fees of any local clinics, but the staff are trained well on how to explain the value. We put them up a fair bit recently (everything went up over 5%, some things 10% or more), and it has made no difference to conversion rates that we can tell.

We have found differnet staff have different levels of conversion, so move our staff where possible to get maximum value.

It's one of those parameters that are very helpful as long as you can look at what may influence conversion rates and work on them.

A lot of our marketing is also based around "content marketing" or "helpful marketing" (however you prefer to word it), which means we build a large trust base with potential clients before they even need a vet, so it becomes much easier to "sell" our services to the client when they already trust us.

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Anthony Todd — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 00:36:59 GMT

Sounds a very valuable parameter to me, except that it might mean your "headline" fees are too low?

Sounds like you also have very good telephonists!!!

I wonder if any other practices record this information; sounds very very useful, at all sorts of level.

I've had "telephonists" who would have had a really really low percentage!

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Braden Collins — Sat, 03 Oct 2015 13:22:50 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Anthony Todd

I've just had a shock. I looked at the pricelist on J G Wray website.(Just looked at it because of his burglary thread, but having a nosey around)

http://www.gpvets.co.uk/about-us/prices.shtml

I really am not criticising the actual numbers at all - we all set our prices to reflect our service and location. But to charge the same for an EAG and a sick hamster as you would for anything else is, well, eye opening. I agree that we should - fixed costs and time for appointment are the same - but didn't know anyone was actually doing this. Not sure my clients would accept £43.56 to empty some anal glands, but I guess it would encourage (force?) those people into the healthy pet club. Can't decide whether I think its a great business idea (which it is) or whether I find it unpalatable.

J G Wray - tagged you in cos didn't want you thinking I was discussing your website without you knowing - but you've certainly given me food for thought....!! Not sure it would work for my practice but...maybe.....???? Hmmmmm.....

[/quote]

I think those prices are very fair.

We charge the same to see a budgie or a gold fish as a dog. Our time is worth the same regardless of the species, so it needs to be charged the same. the value to the client is for them to decide.

the price for a vet EAG is higher than for a nurse EAG. We do this as well. If people want a vet to do a job that a nurse can do, they need to accept the higher fee. It's the same argument as above - my time is just as valuable whatever I am doing. Too often people would book something simple like a nail clip for a vet to do, then "while I'm here, can you just check his ears/skin/lump" and expect to not be charged extra. We found by having nurse consults for everything nurses can do makes it much easier to charge a client appropriately, as when they ask for a lump to be checked the nurse can organise a proper appointment and the expectation of a consult fee is set.

We have the prrices on our website too, and it is one of the most visited sections on our website (for example, over 900 people have checked out our dog vaccination price list in the last 30 days). People want to know this information, and being transparent about it certainly helps build trust. It also means we save a lot of time on the phone and drop the price sensitive clients straight away. 93% of phone calls to our clinics result in an appointment or procedure being booked.

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 21:54:34 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

"under the gun"

[/quote]

In Texas Hold'em poker it refers to the first player to act in a round. Someone raising the minimum bet while 'under the gun' is announcing that they're up for a fight: You don't know about the others, coz they hadn't made their bet yet. It's probably the worst or one of the worst positions to be, most people fold or simply call and wait.

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Anthony Todd — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 19:50:56 GMT

Thanks, not sure "in the gun" is right; think should have said "under the gun" which in the antipodes means under pressure for bad reasons.

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 17:00:46 GMT

eh? What does 'in the gun' mean??

It is simply the new system of tagging someone! Lets them know the reply is to/about them! We were discussing business charges- that's all!

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Anthony Todd — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 16:41:23 GMT

Crikey, now I'm in the gun when I say nothing, and in red!

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Anthony Todd[/quote]

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 15:41:39 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]Oh good, but our prices reflect how much it costs to run our business and meet our prospective aims.[/quote]

Absolutely. Like I said, businesses charge differently and as long as there is transparency (I hate when practices hide fees....like charging for analgesia and a buster collar after a smaller estimate is given for a routine neuter) then all is good. For example, you wouldn't get the boss of Aldi accusing M&S of profiteering for charging more for their apples!! We all charge what is right for our business structure. And, at the end of the day, we are all running businesses.

Anyway, I am genuinely interested in looking at how you make this fee structure work. I will contact you (and stop waffling ....I've gone off-subject as it is!)

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

J G Wray — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 14:31:26 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I really am not criticising the actual numbers at all - we all set our prices to reflect our service and location.[/quote]

Oh good, but our prices reflect how much it costs to run our business and meet our prospective aims. It is not a finger-in-the-air exercise followe by a percentage and a "Oh we can't charge that" moment. There is system and method.

Incidentally we're the only practice to publish our prices on our website in our area. Those who are price sensitive are clear about us. The rest of the acquisition is down to us, but even so it doesn't represent the main thrust of our marketing which lies with our current client base, which is much easier and cheaper....

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Not sure it would work for my practice but...maybe[/quote]

It's a far from original idea and implementing it starts with checking out the reality of what you think you know about your own practice. If you want to know how to go about this sytematically then contact me off list.

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 14:26:00 GMT

[quote user="Emily Rainbow"]I have found a few posts on this thread utterly demoralising regarding people's opinions of new grads. [/quote]Sometimes Emily it is tough love. You may respond by having sunshine blown up your arse others need a boot!

I wouldn't be demoralised I'd take it like a red rag to a bull and be determined to show the old buggers (that could include me of course) whose best! I think you have given a pretty good account of yourself in your short time on here.

Keep it up.

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 14:06:42 GMT

For Hampshire it's actually not bad - in fact if that number includes VAT, it's downright reasonable! :)

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 13:29:23 GMT

Former Member

I've just had a shock. I looked at the pricelist on J G Wray website.(Just looked at it because of his burglary thread, but having a nosey around)

http://www.gpvets.co.uk/about-us/prices.shtml

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Robin Grimmer — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 11:33:56 GMT

I've always operated on and treated my own pets. I don't think it's fair to pin all the responsibility on a colleague plus I wouldn't want anyone else to do it unless it was a referral.

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Anthony Todd — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 09:22:35 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"] I don'tremember any other professional charging less just because theyve already seen me twice....[/quote]

Too true, last time £75 for looking at a rather cobbled up 2 inch suture line and saying "fine", which if you think about it, it was, and a rather hefty one at that!

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 08:42:10 GMT

Ditto, I don't touch my own pets or friends/relatives; paranoia and superstition mixed with being an old softie. :)

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 02 Oct 2015 08:27:57 GMT

Gillian - they'd soon grasp the concept that time is money if every time they gave a free appointment, you docked 15mins from their pay.

The fact that all 3 of my assistants gave unauthorized freebies was a major part of my decision that I was better off without them

Stephen I can't be realistic about my own animals either

Wynne

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Stephen Courtney — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 22:34:51 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]My current dog goes to see another vet colleague now, i don't even vaccinate her![/quote]

I don't get that. I don't want anyone else 'vetting' my dogs.

Personally I've spayed 3 bitches this year, my own and two close neighbours. The other vets do a lot more operating but not my dog, or those under my nose (god forbid if something went wrong).

[/quote]

I was shocked at how incapable i was of being sensible or realistic, and i'd always fancied myself a fairly practical minded unsentimental type.

I hate working on friends' and relations' pets - I find it far more stressful than animals that belong to people i only have a professional relationship with.

I'm no control freak but I do know many vets and nurses who don't let anyone else do things to their pets, so i do understand the sentiment.

My dog was lap spayed( I don't do those) by a double certificated Cert SAS/VDI who does nothing but operate, and he did a beautiful job.

RE: Compassion Burn Out - What has become of James Herriot?

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 22:28:33 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]My current dog goes to see another vet colleague now, i don't even vaccinate her![/quote]

I don't get that. I don't want anyone else 'vetting' my dogs.

Personally I've spayed 3 bitches this year, my own and two close neighbours. The other vets do a lot more operating but not my dog, or those under my nose (god forbid if something went wrong).