Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 12:25:59 GMT

Just had a call from one of my ex-nurses who now lives in Cyprus. I inquired about the weather and she said they were having a sandstorm that's come all the way from Syria. I rather cynically suggested that it would provide good cover for migrants to sneak ashore.

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

Simo — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 17:00:57 GMT

During holidays my dad (who should get out more too) said something like "we should accept only the true desperate", I couldn't but point out that nobody less than desperate would leave their home to live in Carbonia... in particular if they are economic migrants.

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

Dagmar Steele — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 10:42:39 GMT

I thought so but these days I wouldn't have wondered anymore if it had been real...

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 10:33:31 GMT

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"]c'mon Arlo, you can't be serious! Tell me you photoshopped this, right?????[/quote]

Laughed out loud - it's a spoof I found on the internet!

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

Dagmar Steele — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 10:01:55 GMT

c'mon Arlo, you can't be serious! Tell me you photoshopped this, right?????

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 09:50:54 GMT

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 07:10:05 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote]

You'll find that there are a lot people who strongly oppose to genuine refugees.[/quote]

Yeah, well, if you lurk on "social media networks" you'll find any kind of nutter you care to name. You should get out more, Francisco.[/quote]

Yes, I should. But I don't think we can all disregard the effect of social media on the minds of the young anymore. One million active users in one single day accross the globe, is not a small thing. http://fortune.com/2015/08/28/1-billion-facebook/ .

The problem, I just learnt, is actually worse than I thought: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-34176631

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]The "cake", for what it's worth, in this country, is our cake.[/quote]

I was talking more about West Europe in general, since as I was pointing out earlier, the problem is far bigger than to be specifically referred to one single country.

But I find interesting your use of the pronoun 'our' when referring to the cake.

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 01:03:06 GMT

As usual, Francisco, I have very little idea of what you are on about. However, I understood this bit:

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]Who are we to criticise nomadic behaviour?[/quote]

No, indeed, why should we criticise it?

But we are perfectly entitled to resist nomads – well, migrants really, nomadism is something more specific and can really only be practised by pastoralists, or arguably by slash-and-burn cultivators - nomadising themselves into our country.

This country has always been good about taking refugees, but they are expected to fit iin, not be too much of a burden on everyone else and not be criminal.

The "cake", for what it's worth, in this country, is our cake.

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]I remember Enoch Powell stirring up all sorts of racist hate ,[/quote]

No he did not! He stated some obvious truths and gave some good reasoning. And he never said anything about "rivers of blood". The trouble for Enoch Powell was that he over-estimated the intelligence and education of the Great British Public, their journalists and their politicians. He actually thought that people would listen carefully and thoughtfully to what he was saying and understand his classical allusions.

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]If you've read in social media networks... You'll find that there are a lot people who strongly oppose to genuine refugees.[/quote]

Yeah, well, if you lurk on "social media networks" you'll find any kind of nutter you care to name. You should get out more, Francisco.

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 19:15:34 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]if I decide to go and live in France if Jeremy Corbyn gets into power.[/quote] I suspect you will not be alone , I think somewhere in that triangle between Cognac Angouleme and Bergerac . Lovely weather but still lots of trees between the vineyards.

[/quote]Trouble is the loony left has too much power in France as well.

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 19:00:06 GMT

I'm not expecting a contest on which country have to deal with more grief about this, that's not the point either. The point is that the media talks like h*ll about this now, because it is at the door, and it affect us more.

The problem, however, had been brewing for a 'bit'. One of the most common cultural Spanish tunes (and I guess Italian and Greek too), amongst Paella and the horrible 'art' of bullfighting, is watching in the news every Summer how Sub-Saharan pregnant women had died in the Mediterranean Sea trying to reach Europe. The problem isn't new.

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]If you've read in social media networks... You'll find that there are a lot people who strongly oppose to genuine refugees.[/quote]

I am not sure how representative that is ?

[/quote]

'Touché'

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 18:48:03 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

They should claim asylum in the first safe country where they land. As part of the European Union I would support relocation of these migrants equally across the EU - perhaps based pro rata on population.

[/quote]

If you look closely at my links, you'll find that we've been asking for something like this for years. In fact, I grew up with it.

http://elpais.com/diario/2005/10/10/espana/1128895212_850215.html

http://elpais.com/diario/2002/04/15/espana/1018821613_850215.html

(I'm sure your browser will traduce the whole thing to English in no time)

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

I'm really not sure where you are going with this Francisco.

[/quote]

There you go

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 18:27:36 GMT

I'm not disagreeing that these guys need help BUT:

[quote user="Bob Russell"]That makes them economic migrants in my opinion. [/quote]

If they are going to be persecuted we should do out fair share to help. If they are coming here because we are soft then NO. Emergency NHS treatment only unless a taxpayer for 12 months.

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

grumpyoldman — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 18:00:53 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]If you've read in social media networks... You'll find that there are a lot people who strongly oppose to genuine refugees.[/quote]

I am not sure how representative that is ? I think most people are pretty reasonable when it comes down to it , I remember Enoch Powell stirring up all sorts of racist hate ,but nothing ever came of it , there were no rivers of blood in the cities just probably a few too many take-aways in the end . There maybe those who think that that group of migrants were playing the long game and slowly poisoning the masses with excess msg. Its interesting in some places those most upset about the new people are the second and third generation people of the 1960s and 1970s ,

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

grumpyoldman — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 17:44:05 GMT

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

Bob Russell — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 15:00:37 GMT

I am concerned that several migrants interviewed have stated that if they had known how bad the journey was going to be they would have stayed in Syria!

That makes them economic migrants in my opinion.

There are plenty that fully deserve a safe haven in Europe. Those tortured by any of the mad loony groups in Syria for example. Persecuted minorities from so many of these countries.

Those that just see the EU as a source of hand outs should learn very fast that this is not the place for them.

I agree that this country should only take the deserving from refugee camps to discourage people from putting themselves in the hands of criminals to get them to 'the promised land'.

The problem is that I have very little confidence in the abilities of many staff working at the Home Office!

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 12:34:13 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

Surely no-one can turn away those who are genuine refugees who are fleeing conflict or oppressive regimes where their lives are genuinely at risk. The problem is separating the two.

[/quote]

If you've read in social media networks... You'll find that there are a lot people who strongly oppose to genuine refugees.

PS. I wish you all the best in your new French adventure

RE: Who are we to criticise those who want a chunk of the cake?

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 11:22:46 GMT

I'm really not sure where you are going with this Francisco. If someone wants to emigrate to the UK because they think it is a better country than they presently live in and are able to contribute to the economy I don't have a problem anymore than I don't expect the French to object if I decide to go and live in France if Jeremy Corbyn gets into power. However I do object to economic migrants who just want a better life and sponge off the state and expect to enter the country as refugees which seems to be a high proportion of those arriving at the gates of Europe at the moment. Surely no-one can turn away those who are genuine refugees who are fleeing conflict or oppressive regimes where their lives are genuinely at risk. The problem is separating the two.