ideas please

RE: ideas please

Miriam Lodewyks — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 23:32:09 GMT

Yes, but seriously: how do you just walk away from everything you know? What about the mortgage, car and pension plan? Do you just walk into Randstadt and ask for a job? I'd love to go save rhinos from extinction, but I don't see how I can actually just walk away from practice and go live in the bush...

RE: ideas please

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 19:21:32 GMT

Alexa , I would agree with others in my respect for your courage in speaking out. You are a vet , will always be a vet whichever way your career path takes you , and your parents will always be proud of you . Their main wish will be for you to be happy I'm sure. Most vets will admit that they feel the way you do from time to time and the rest are Probably lying. Client anxieties can often come across as aggression and it is very difficult not to take it personally but then again some clients are just stinkers and will never be happy. If you would like to chat any time please feel free to message this old dinosaur . As said before there are many other paths you will be very well qualified to take and other jobs and practices which might be better suited to you. So glad youve had a better week and I hope you've got supportive friends and colleagues. We all need to support each other in this profession, it makes all the difference .

RE: ideas please

Robin Grimmer — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 18:22:43 GMT

I think what the OP needs is some practical advice on finding an alternative career outside practice eg industry or academia, or leaving the profession altogether. Rather than people telling her it's just a tough patch. To be honest I'm going through a similar thing, I just don't find practice that fulfilling any more, especially combined with all the stress and long hours. (Currently doing a sole charge locum 8-7 every day plus 8-12 Saturdays, just don't know how people do this all the time). But I like the flexibility that locum work gives me, just come back from a month cycling all the way around Spain:)

RE: ideas please

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 17:31:57 GMT

[quote user="Alexa Bardell"]

It's helpful to know other people have the same thoughts and problems and that you're not alone in feeling like this.

Those of you who talk about the time and money invested in becoming a vet are right- it is hard to admit that something you worked towards for so long might not be the right path for you. That coupled with the fact that you then have to admit to family, who are so proud to say their daughter is a vet, that you don't want to do it any more.

[/quote]90% of the battle is to know you're not alone. Not one of us has no self-doubt or anxieties we all do, the problem is that if your coping mechanisms aren't as good then if affects you more. I just have a very big hurt locker to hide it away in and a very big mask!

Your family would be the first to be proud of you for being brave enough to admit you don't want to do it any more, I know I would with my daughters.

RE: ideas please

a.bardell — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 18:38:18 GMT

Just want to say thanks for all the kind words of encouragement.

I'm working on seeing the positives and not the negatives all the time and some days are easier than others. I have finally found a councillor who I feel can work with and we now have quite a few coping mechanisms in place. I don't think now is the time to make rash decisions but was thinking of seeing what my options are so I can think things through and come up with a plan of action.

It may well be that in 6 mths time I look back at this thread and put it down to a blip in the grand scheme of things but who knows?

It's helpful to know other people have the same thoughts and problems and that you're not alone in feeling like this.

Today has been a better day so lets hope tomorrow is too and things continue to improven

RE: ideas please

Braden Collins — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 15:23:08 GMT

People on the whole are afraid to walk away from things they have invested a lot in, whether it be time or money.

We invest a lot of both of these in becoming vets, so naturally we don't want to feel like we have wasted them.

The money and time we have invested to date is gone, so you need to look towards the future.

If you invested a lot of money into something that wasn't giving the return you need, you could either throw more at it (and likely lose/waste more), or you could walk away from your losses and start afresh.

The same can apply to time. You have invested a lot of time to get where you are and that time is gone, but if you're not happy where you are you're just going to waste more time if you don't make the change.

Work out what makes you happy, then find a way to make money doing it. Even if it's got nothing to do with your vet degree, you're going to be able to cut your losses and not waste any more time.

RE: ideas please

J G Wray — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 13:28:59 GMT

Got this through today

I'm pleased to announce some further dates for the popular "Coping with life in Practice" workshop and hope you will be able to join me on one of them.

Edinburgh 13th October 2015
Leeds 11th November 2015
Cheltenham 21st January 2015

In the UK 11.3 million working days are lost each year due to stress, anxiety and depression. The cost of workplace stress to both individuals and practices is significant and should never be underestimated.   We’re all very aware that individuals cope differently to the pressures of practice and for many people working in a veterinary practice can be very stressful, maybe not everyday but certainly at times. The challenge comes from recognising the signs and making sure you and your team are coping.

Stress, Burnout and Compassion Fatigue are commonly seen in those working in veterinary practices. We all face many daily challenges-the frustrating case, the difficult client, the computer system that doesn’t do what you need it to do, the long hours, the challenging colleagues and team interactions.  

All part of the normal demands of working within the profession but how do you cope with them? Are you coping with them? Are your colleagues coping with them? What is being done in your practice to help the team perform under the pressures? Anything? Or do you just try and get on with it?

We cannot always alter the situation we are in: but we can alter our reaction to it.

Remember we can all learn to cope with the pressures we face, to learn tools and techniques to help recognise signs of stress in yourself and your colleagues and have the confidence to know what to do to improve the situation, to live a less stressful life.

Join me on a full day workshop and learn the techniques and skills to combat the impact of stress at work and build resilience in the work environment.

"Coping with life within a veterinary practice”

Edinburgh 13th October 2015
Leeds 11th November 2015
Cheltenham 21st January 2015

During the day you will identify the signs of stress and excessive pressure in yourself and your colleagues and learn tools and strategies to put yourself back in control both personally and professionally and get the most out of your life and your career.

 This workshop is ideal for vets, nurses, practice managers, receptionists, at all levels and in all roles who recognise they need to take action to prevent the pressures they are experiencing from becoming unhealthily stressful.   Recent workshops have been very popular so book now as we have limited spaces available. 

What previous delegates have said: 

 “This has been invaluable for my own development, but also how I can develop my team and their skills”   
“A very interesting, insightful and informative day, gave lots of good practical strategies to help me cope better, thank you” 
 “Everyone should do this workshop, it has helped me on so many levels. Fun and informative, thanks” 

 If you have any questions about the workshops or would like further information on more 1on1 coaching or practice workshops, please do not hesitate to contact me at carolyne@carolynecrowe.co.uk or on 07500006383. I look forward to hearing from you.

Edinburgh 13th October 2015
Leeds 11th November 2015
Cheltenham 21st January 2015

RE: ideas please

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 11:39:57 GMT

[quote user="Alexa Bardell"]

It's the fact that whatever you do seems to come back and bite you and it's the constant feeling that I have to justify every single action, choice I make on the off chance that the client in front of me feels they need to have a scapegoat.

I don't have a problem discussing treatment options, ways forward etc with clients and coming to a mutual decision but its when you do all that and bend over backwards and still they want your blood that I find so demoralising.

I'm getting a lot better at focussing on the positives but even so there are days when you just wander why you bother.

[/quote]There is a never a day that passes without I feel the same but I just try to focus on the positives and the fact I'm treating the animals not the owners. The problem is that unless you become a hermit it will be the same whatever you do. If you don't have to deal with an ungrateful public then there will be unreasonable colleagues or employers.

I feel sure that it is your mental status that is making you see more of the negatives than positives but you have been brave enough to address those. I know that anxiety and depression are not something that you can just wish away and there will be more dark days to come. I go through this with my younger daughter (she's almost the polar opposite of her sister and probably the fact she lives in her shadow is a reason) and I'm the worst one to try and sympathise as I come from the 'get a grip on yourself' school of psychiatry. But knowing that you are not alone and concentrating on the positives in your life, inside and outside of work, giving yourself something to look forward to, having a sport to challenge your body and get a high from, and a hobby to take you mind off it, all these are the best way forward.

RE: ideas please

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 11:30:24 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]Admitting it and coming here in the open with your real name. Don't feel proud? It had been sometime since the last time I saw someone as brave as you posting here.[/quote]

Hear hear. Just what I was thinking.

RE: ideas please

Andrew Kent — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 11:23:43 GMT

Hi Alexa,

I am sure many people have many different views on these things but, personally, I really believe that you have to enjoy what you are doing. Otherwise it risks having a significant impact on your wellbeing. And life is too short, and we all work too much, to not get enjoyment from it as well.

I suppose, therefore, what I am saying is that if you don't enjoy your current situation then get out and do something else. I have had a number of friends and colleagues in similar situations, starting to question whether they want to be in practice any more. Some have left the profession completely to do other things, some have taken a break and then really missed it and gone back, and some have just changed jobs and found a new enjoyment in a different practice.

I think, as vets, we have that mentality that because we worked so hard for it and decided so early in life that its what we wanted to do, that it is in some way a failing to change our mind. But that is simply not true - what other decision that you make as a 12 year old would still be the case now?!

In terms of what you could do as an alternative - again the key is finding something enjoyable - so think about what you are interested in and how that could be a career path.

You could think about either cutting down your days or locuming to give you a bit more flexibility and then see if you can do something else along side practice - then maybe you get the best of both worlds.

I hope, whatever you choose to do, that you find something that you enjoy!

Andy

RE: ideas please

Francisco Gomez — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 11:16:21 GMT

[quote user="Alexa Bardell"]

Not too proud to admit that have been down at rock bottom and now out the other side with a lot of help and medication.

[/quote]

Admitting it and coming here in the open with your real name. Don't feel proud? It had been sometime since the last time I saw someone as brave as you posting here.

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"] when people want blood it's usually down to a mismatch of expectations caused by a communication problem.

[/quote]

Been there, done that... and for what I can read, I believe Alexa had been too.

You're right Arlo, there are these tiny amount of people who just got the wrong end of the stick. Unfortunately there seems to be more and more people that they are just unjustifiably incompetent at being a vet client.

As a 'wee' example I'd tell you the story of a client who's pet had a dental and expected a good insurance to pay for the costs of the given treatment. So far so good. The insurance, which is known of paying for these sort of procedures when it is justifiable, replied to us by asking a few questions, which I answered the best I could.

Later on, the client came the the practice to complain because the insurance would refuse to pay. Had an email with the reasons for this, but didn't bring the email with them.

After a couple of days of wondering why our client had been left in so disadvantaged position, we resulted to ask the client more information regarding their insurance and their pet to see if we could help.

Well... it turns out they had been advised a dental procedure with extractions for 3 years in a row, by different vets in the practice at different times. Including discussing an estimate. The pet in question had been insured only for the last year.

.... Will we get to the point where we need to teach English before examining the pet? (... says the foreigner of the forum ;-))

RE: ideas please

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 10:03:16 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"] I'm certain that the fact that I was a pilot made me far more interesting than the other Toms, Dicks and Harrys that had walked through the door with their degree in 'history of art'. I'm sure the same would be true of a veterinary surgeon. [/quote]My elder daughter did English at university, realised that her employment possibilities were limited and so did a masters degree in computer technology in one year with no prior learning in the subject. She had gone to Canada at 17 in her pre-uni gap year on her own and qualified as a ski instructor , then travelled round the world on her own that summer. She volunteered to train handicapped skiers for the their world championships and then went to Japan for a season as a ski instructor on her own. Her ultimate plan was to make contacts there to find a job in the computer industry but her stay was cut short after surviving THE earthquake. When she got back she walked up to a stand at a computer industry trade-fair and effectively said,: 'here's my CV, you need me'. They created a job for her ahead of dozens of other very much better qualified people who'd applied in the traditional way because she had shown she had confidence, resilience, versatility and dedication.

I know this sounds like daddy boasting about his little girl and of course as we already know I'm very proud of her and take every opportunity to do so, but it illustrates this point.

RE: ideas please

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 08:55:11 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]If you want out altogether then a veterinary degree shows you are one of the most intelligent, motivated and hard working people on the planet. Transferable skills and all that - the world should be your oyster.[/quote]

Hear hear. I spent years qualifying as a commercial pilot and look where I ended up. I think there are some parallels. My reason for switching career was not dissatisfaction with flying, but an inability to find work. So I walked into an interview in a marketing agency, and to this day, I'm certain that the fact that I was a pilot made me far more interesting than the other Toms, Dicks and Harrys that had walked through the door with their degree in 'history of art'. I'm sure the same would be true of a veterinary surgeon.

Michael Heseltine made a speech at my daughter's school the other week. Inspirational. One of his two main pieces of advice for the children was: find out what interests you; makes you happy and makes you look forward to Monday morning. Do that, and you'll be far more likely to be successful and certainly give more to society.

That may seem like common sense these days, but I was brought up at a time when it seemed almost obligatory not to enjoy your work. It was purely a means to an end; a hair shirt.

Anyway, my point is just that I agree with Martin. The world's your oyster.

[quote user="Alexa Bardell"]The rcvs complaint is not really getting to me that much as we all know at work they are both completely unfounded and that we have nothing to worry about. It's the fact that whatever you do seems to come back and bite you and it's the constant feeling that I have to justify every single action, choice I make on the off chance that the client in front of me feels they need to have a scapegoat.

I just wonder, though, whether a possible answer lies in reviewing your process for 'discussing treatment options, ways forward etc with clients and coming to a mutual decision'. I mean, in my experience (which granted is not in practice), when people want blood it's usually down to a mismatch of expectations caused by a communication problem.

Perhaps keep a record of the occasions when despite discussing options etc., people still seem to want your blood. Then look at whether there are any common denominators. Is there something you could tweak about the way you communicate / work in order to head this kind of thing off at the pass. For example, maybe there is a type of client which just doesn't respond well to people seemingly bending over backwards and doing things collaboratively. Maybe they see that as a chink in the armour, and what they respond better to is a dictator!

Just a thought, and I am probably talking out of my southern posterior. Either way, hope things improve for you.

Talking of improve, that's an amazing bit of product placement, Silvia! :) :)

RE: ideas please

Silvia Maldonado — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 03:33:17 GMT

I've not met a vet who didn't ever wonder if he/she had done wrong by choosing becoming a vet. This piece of paper reminds me that I'm a great vet, a fantastic person, and have a bunch of friends who would disagree with that owner who doesn't value my efforts, or that colleague who was not in my shoes. Just an idea, meet that team you trust, and make them write to each other some kind, positive words about each other down in a piece of paper. When you start beating yourself up, unfold it, read it mindfully, and remember, "He that is without missing a diagnose, forgetting recording some notes, or giving the wrong treatment among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”

RE: ideas please

a.bardell — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 21:12:17 GMT

Thanks for your kind words Catriona.

The rcvs complaint is not really getting to me that much as we all know at work they are both completely unfounded and that we have nothing to worry about. It's the fact that whatever you do seems to come back and bite you and it's the constant feeling that I have to justify every single action, choice I make on the off chance that the client in front of me feels they need to have a scapegoat.

I'm getting a lot better at focussing on the positives but even so there are days when you just wander why you bother.

RE: ideas please

Catriona MacIntyre — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 20:42:24 GMT

Alexa,

I'm sorry you are going through this. It sounds pretty hard. I totally understand that you feel awful at the moment, and will respect your decision if you do choose a change of career (ETA - the most important things is to choose what is right for you). I know it would take me a lot to discuss this openly with colleagues or post on a forum, and it might well have done for you too.

I have felt like this, or close to it in the recent past, and also faced a RCVS complaint. It was not a pleasant experience to go through, but I did get support from friends, and the VDS. The complaints process, although frustratingly slow, did find in my favour and clear me of any wrongdoing, and supported my decisions on the night in question (it was an out of hours care issue).

Very shortly afterwards, when I was still feeling the emotional bruises, several staff including myself received Petplan Award nominations, which made me look at things slightly differently. As a practice, we also keep all our Thank You cards and photographs clients have given us of their precious companions. I used to think this was a bit daft and sentimental, but I value it properly now. If you do the same (i.e. keep cards), take a look back through some of them and remember that these people were really grateful for your hard work. If you don't, hang on to the next one that comes in!

It really is hard to cope when everything seems to be hemming you in. Remember however, that the satisfied, happy clients often don't make a whole lot of noise about it, whereas the grouchy ones with an axe to grind are happy to take it out on anyone within reach. Despite appearances to the contrary, it's quite likely that the majority of your clients DO appreciate you AND value the service that you provide, but they don't shout as loudly as the minority of malcontents.

Recently I've been working on trying to focus more on the >95% of satisfied clients than the grumpy crew, specifically not letting the tiny amount of negatives block the rest of the day out.

There are quite a few useful resources, and a Vet Helpline available at Vetlife.org

I'm not sure how far through the complaints process you are, but I really hope it is resolved soon and you can feel free to either move on, or get back into your stride. It's horrible to have it hanging over you. I hope you feel able to keep in touch and let us know how you are getting on

Catriona

RE: ideas please

a.bardell — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 19:44:40 GMT

Not too proud to admit that have been down at rock bottom and now out the other side with a lot of help and medication.

I just feel that the whole culture has changed in the years since I qualified with everyone looking for someone to blame or sue. There are 2 cases in particular that are ongoing where myself and all my collegues did out best, advised treatments or diagnostics etc and we now have letters of complaint and rcvs investigations pending.

I used to enjoy my job just being a bog standard gp vet. I don't really feel I want to go down the specialist route and was just seeing if anyone had any novel ideas to add to the mix.

I'm lucky that my practice are v supportive and have helped me a lot but even the boss is feeling jaded at the moment.

You mention respect from the public but I feel this is no longer true- maybe its just this practice but I suspect not.

I've been here before but never to the same degree so wandering if it's a sign for a change

RE: ideas please

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 17:15:18 GMT

Not sure if this a cry for help, but what in particular is making you feel this way? You could work towards a certificate and become a specialist if you want to stay in the profession. If you want out altogether then a veterinary degree shows you are one of the most intelligent, motivated and hard working people on the planet. Transferable skills and all that - the world should be your oyster. But unless you are really burned out and on the verge of a mental breakdown I think it would be a good time to reflect on what you have, how lucky you are, the respect you have from the public and your peers and why you wanted to be vet in the first place, Then think what else could give you as much satisfaction. You may then have a change of heart. I go through this frequently.and I'm still here.