KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Luca Poddighe — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 15:54:24 GMT

I use a 1ml syringe for KC and if I hold it in my hand for a few seconds it gets warm soon. Even if I generally have cold hands... and warm heart!

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 13:41:05 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]warm up in your hand BEFORE calling the client into the room [/quote]

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"] Give the owner the diluent and the vaccine bottle as you examine the dog, so they can warm it up[/quote] Just stick it in your trouser pocket when you get it out the fridge then by the time you're ready to use it its warm and everyone can keep using their hands. Simple really.

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 11:47:26 GMT

[quote user="John Flynn"]Secret 2 for any new grads out there - make it up and warm up in your hand BEFORE calling the client into the room - nothing worse than cold stuff up your nose... the next vet to see the dog for an intranasal vacc won't thank you if you squirt up a cold vaccine![/quote]

1) Give the owner the diluent and the vaccine bottle as you examine the dog, so they can warm it up

2) Leave the diluent out of the fridge. I've seen one place do this (Interestingly MSD advise letting everything reach room temperature in its guidance, though I'm not sure if the diluent has to be stored in the fridge??

Neil

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Emily Rainbow — Wed, 24 Jun 2015 11:05:26 GMT

I always get the dog say between owners legs whilst they're sat on a chair. They hold under chin to raise head, I cover eyes and go for it. Never use the green ends, just a normal 2.5ml syringe and try not to touch the nasal mucosa with it as I go in. I also give slowly rather than squirt, less sneezing or reaction that way. Always have a biscuit ready to give straight away too!

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Luca Poddighe — Mon, 22 Jun 2015 09:11:56 GMT

Quote and I do it too.

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

grumpyoldman — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 12:18:26 GMT

[quote user="John Flynn"]I'm fairly confident that if approached in a sympathetic manner from the outset, very few dogs develop an fear of receiving intranasal vaccines.[/quote]

I will mention that to the wife who had the end of her finger munched yesterday by an enterprising Jug. After a G&T.

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

John Flynn — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 07:47:31 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Covering the eyes is the secret.[/quote]

A small cloth teat towel is ideal - can wrap around snout and under chin to help control head while apply with other hand.

Secret 2 for any new grads out there - make it up and warm up in your hand BEFORE calling the client into the room - nothing worse than cold stuff up your nose... the next vet to see the dog for an intranasal vacc won't thank you if you squirt up a cold vaccine!

If known to have been difficult to give before, I tend to confirm they're there for a KC on the way to the consulting room, get them in, close the door, cover eyes with towel and wrap under chin and squirt up the warm vaccine in about 5 secs before the dog familiarises with its surroundings and while the owners are still uttering the phrase "he's here for a KC, we had to muzzle him last year". Much easier than starting a battle.

I'm fairly confident that if approached in a sympathetic manner from the outset, very few dogs develop an fear of receiving intranasal vaccines.

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 23:29:05 GMT

It was about the most entertaining part of seeing small animal practice - seeing vets give the kennel cough vaccine. Some really good, really competent vets couldn't do it for toffee.

[quote user="Luca Poddighe"]

I prefer to not use them, I use a 1ml syringe and try to drop slowly ideally without touching the nostril, approaching frontally and covering the eyes with one hand or a towel. To me works better this way, but I suppose that every vet has his favourite system.

[/quote]

Covering the eyes is the secret. Most dogs don't realise it's even happened.I don't use the stupid ends.

(I do far more kennel cough vaccines than anything else in dogs)

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Charlotte Marshall — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 20:48:41 GMT

I do usually use the green bit. but some dogs are a pain and even with it sometimes I am sure it angles into the side of the nostril and does not really go up the nose. On the other hand over the years I am pretty sure I am well immunised!

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Luca Poddighe — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:50:44 GMT

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Neil Wheadon — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 11:02:44 GMT

[quote user="grumpyoldman"]apart from that they are pretty useless[/quote]

I love them.

Back the dog into a corner (in all cases) don't try to do this on a table.

Put the syringe behind your back

Hold the dogs nose and try to cover the eyes

Swiftly dart your hand aiming the nozzle into the nose. (The nozzle is shaped so that it's like an arrow head) I genuinely get lots of owners say to me 'That was easier than last time'

It works a treat, (well nearly all the time) you only get one chance with many dogs, and if they get wind of what you are doing then the problems start, set yourself up right first time

Neil

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Luca Poddighe — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:01:17 GMT

[quote user="Sammy82"]

I did not mean to GA a dog just for the vaccine, but when they are in for castration or similar.

[/quote]

Well in my case it was a dog that require for urgent kenneling at short distance of time because of some familiar trouble, don't remind the details but the owner was travelling somewhere for the funeral of a close relative, the only kennel that could get them in short notice was mandatory about KC and the dog simply wouldn't have it (I sort of remind that he was a shitzu impossible even to muzzle left alone kc him).

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

grumpyoldman — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 23:52:46 GMT

I only use the nozzle to put on the end of a 20ml syringe and create a water jet to debulk and biopsy intranasal tumours, apart from that they are pretty useless .

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Claudia Niehoegen — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 23:45:07 GMT

I always use the green thingy to direct the squirt, and I prefer the black cloth muzzles. Even in friendly but jumpy dogs it gives me a better grip around the nose/ jaws, without having toi worry about my fingers. And I find Rotties the most difficult, when they swing their head from side to side and I can't follow their rhythm.

But that all pales into insignificance compared to what we did in my first job: the boss had read that intrnasal 'flu vaccine gave the best immunity in cats. After a year of being scratched I met the author of that publication who couldn't believe anybody actually used that technique in practice.. What bliss to switch to injections!

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Joyce Whitehead — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 22:39:58 GMT

I can't say I'd heard of the idea of putting it in the eye, but I can see that there may be an overflow issue. I find the difficult ones are better with a Baskerville muzzle, as it touches the end of the nose if pushed up, so the dog doesn't notice the fact you are near the nose. Having said that, there are a couple we can't get near, one a. Labradoodle, and one a bulldog. With those I give the vaccine to the owner but don't sign the card. They seem to manage at home once the dog is asleep. I also never use the yellow squirted thing, I think it gets in the way.

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

grumpyoldman — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 21:46:39 GMT

your average tear film is 50 micro-litres ,which is about 1 drop, a KC vaccine is about 10 drops so after 1 drop in each eye , anymore and it will just overflow as epiphora because your second eye drop just washes the first one out and is essentially pointless , which probably means your wasting 80% of the vial . So if it works with this method of admin maybe its ok to divide one dose between 5 dogs ??. Just a thought ?

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Stephen Courtney — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 20:59:22 GMT

I give 4-5 kennel cough vaccines on some days, never less than one or two - it's part of out Pet Healthcare Scheme. i have little trouble with most dogs but some are a nightmare and just have it kind of squirted at them...

Couple of tricks - keep the volume small. nobivac KC is ideal for this. client holds head gently, place forefinger of one hand alongside the nose to use as a guide. tip head up a little and slide the syringe alongside finger till near but not touching nostril, and gently deposit the small volume into one nostril. Works most of the time. i never use the silly little nozzles that come with the vaccines. Sometimes i empty the vaccine into the palm of my hand and place hand over the nose.

If the dog needs a muzzle for kennel cough it needs to be a fabric muzzle open over the nose - covering the eyes helps, and if the dog is really bad owner has to bring dog in already muzzled, and bring a strong family member to help too. Yes, it seems big labradoodles are the worst kind of dog for this!

And there a re a few dogs that i won't do at all. i would be very reluctant to sedate a dog for a kennel cough vaccine - a bout of kennel cough is hardly the end of the world in most cases, and there are kennels that will take dogs without it.

Most of my KC requests come from owners who want to go to doggy daycare type places, other than the new pups whole get it as part of their first vaccinations, and most of those pups continue to get it as adults, and tend not to mind it.

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Sammy82 — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 17:45:10 GMT

I did not mean to GA a dog just for the vaccine, but when they are in for castration or similar.

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Luca Poddighe — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 17:19:26 GMT

I've done it in past and had no problems. So far as owner is happy to pay for the costs and animal is healthy enough to withstand the procedure I don't see the problem. Then obviously I would leave it to an extreme ratio.

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Sammy82 — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 17:07:30 GMT

Considering that the tear duct enters the nasal cavity quite distally I can't imagine it will induce enough local immunity as it should- and we don't really need local immunity in the eye. Does anyone know of any reason why you can't/should not give the vaccine to a sedated or anaethetised dog as I was told by one of our nurses? I don't see a reason why not, the tiny amount of fluid is unlikely to even reach the trachea, let alone pose any danger especially when the dog is tubed anyway.

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Andrew Mellor — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 16:53:37 GMT

one owner , 2 shar peis , 2 apt 1 hour apart, could not handle both together, both dogs bit me through same thumb nail trying to give kc vaccine, I have had better days!!!

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Andrew Mellor — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 16:52:16 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

I'm sure I've given it in the eye, mouth, face anywhere but the nose in some difficult dogs. I dread kc vacs. Some dogs get worse and worse each year, particularly labradoodle types!

[/quote]

its westies and shar peis that I hate doing.

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 13:36:27 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]I'm sure I've given it in the eye, mouth, face anywhere but the nose in some difficult dogs.[/quote]And the floor as well. Its no good in teh mouth by intention thouigh as the local immunity in the naso-pharynx is required. But I have even sent the client home with the vaccine to do it themselves when the dog is asleep before now. I can't sign the certificate but at least the dog should have immunity.

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Robin Grimmer — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 12:20:48 GMT

I'm sure I've given it in the eye, mouth, face anywhere but the nose in some difficult dogs. I dread kc vacs. Some dogs get worse and worse each year, particularly labradoodle types!

Re: KennelCough Vaccine given in the eye?

Bob Russell — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 10:29:11 GMT

It is much easier in some patients than intranasal. I have done it but warn owners that it might cause conjunctivitis and it might not be as effective. Done rarely though and never had any adverse reactions.

Originally the idea came via the rep for Intrac!