Am I heartless by saying no?

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Braden Collins — Mon, 25 May 2015 04:35:15 GMT

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Sorry about lack of feedback. HAd a few days away from the computer.

We've decided to offer her a one-off 12 month membership, which will give her 2 free consultations. I think it's a good compromise in terms of helping someone out without being a long-term mug about it.

I'll be putting a few restrictions on the consults, such as not being able to request a certain vet (normally only wants to see one vet) so that it's not too much of a pain.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Robin Grimmer — Sun, 24 May 2015 22:30:38 GMT

The OP has gone very quiet.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Virginia Campbell — Sun, 24 May 2015 21:13:29 GMT

[quote user="Braden Collins"]I will always have dogs [/quote]

Dogs. Plural. Reckon she's going to replace Angus, and my bet is with a "rescue" with multiple medical problems, not a low maintenance dog. You will be expected to provide discount care for as many dogs as she collects, and in her mind, the more dogs, the better a client she is. 5% isn't huge so I guess you could afford to do it....expect effusive thanks short term, and complaints long term if she doesn't get discount on everything.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Robin Grimmer — Fri, 22 May 2015 16:38:32 GMT

[quote user="ChrisBVSc"]

If she really is a long standing client & worth keeping then you could meet half way as a goodwill gesture like others have suggested, e.g. a year's free membership of your plan, or perhaps a small percentage discount applied to her account for a period of time without any of the extra perks? Is she the kind of person who's likely to go elsewhere if you say no?

[/quote]

Yes but she's not a long standing client. The OP says they saw this client quite a few times, but most of the big bills were run up with the referral centre.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

ChrisBVSc — Fri, 22 May 2015 16:30:39 GMT

[quote user="Luca Poddighe"]

[quote user="ChrisBVSc"]Is she the kind of person who's likely to go elsewhere if you say no?[/quote]

This point shouldn't affect any aspect of a vet's life, because if to keep a client you're forced to accept the unacceptable your losing twice.

In regards of the need for help if it is a genuine request to help back on her feet it should be limited to the dire time so I agree that a lifetime help requires a polite denial, but you can support her for a shorter term according to the possibility that your surgery can afford.

[/quote]

I didn't mean this should apply to any client, more that if this was a good client you were happy to keep (or wanted to keep), and a temporary compromise to help them out makes the difference between them leaving & staying with you, then you may decide a compromise is worthwhile. However there are definitely clients I would happily wave out of the door if it were up to me! Case-by-case basis and all that...

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Luca Poddighe — Fri, 22 May 2015 11:54:56 GMT

[quote user="ChrisBVSc"]Is she the kind of person who's likely to go elsewhere if you say no?[/quote]

This point shouldn't affect any aspect of a vet's life, because if to keep a client you're forced to accept the unacceptable your losing twice.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

ChrisBVSc — Wed, 20 May 2015 11:57:09 GMT

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Dagmar Steele — Wed, 20 May 2015 11:51:21 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

Also might be worth checking with the referral centre to see if there's any bad blood or unpaid bills with this client.

[/quote]Ooh you cynic Robin.

[/quote]

yep, I get more and more cynical with age. God knows what I'll be like when I'm your age Martin ;-)

[/quote]

+1.... also re the comment that the ones asking you for help most loudly are the ones most likely to stab you in the back if you refuse to give them everything they want.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 20 May 2015 11:16:23 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

Also might be worth checking with the referral centre to see if there's any bad blood or unpaid bills with this client.

[/quote]Ooh you cynic Robin.

[/quote]

yep, I get more and more cynical with age. God knows what I'll be like when I'm your age Martin ;-)

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 20 May 2015 10:48:21 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]

Also might be worth checking with the referral centre to see if there's any bad blood or unpaid bills with this client.

[/quote]Ooh you cynic Robin.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 20 May 2015 10:41:33 GMT

It's the quiet ones you need to look after and I found this doing TB investigation work, where farms under restriction had a cataclysmic effect on the family due to financial and personal issues. When a problem arises it was the noisy ones that wrote letters, phoned up etc to get attention. For some there was an expectation that you would help regardless of the circumstances

However there were many who were deeply affected and bottled things up that I sought out in preference, and it was these cases that were truly grateful, but more importantly saw it as it was , a helping hand and not a right.

This case is unfortunate, but how many others of your clients need extra support? Probably more than you think.

Neil

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 20 May 2015 10:40:38 GMT

This person strikes me as the type you could bend over backwards for to help, and they'd still stab you in the back and bad mouth you locally and on social media. I'd tell them politely to jog on.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 20 May 2015 10:24:38 GMT

If you're inclined to help, offer a year's membership - subject to whatever conditions you feel fit. That way you're not stuck with things too badly; after a year you can say 'listen, we helped when you asked, sorry it's tough this year' and you've got a way out.

Plus, just in case she tries to pillory you in the press, you can say 'we did help, but can't do lifetime free memberships!'

Just a thought.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Cat Henstridge — Wed, 20 May 2015 10:24:33 GMT

I think a 'life long' membership is a bit much! And who's life is it for anyway, her's or the dog? (It might just be OK if she means the dog and he's pretty ancient!)

If you are feeling generous offer a year or two would be more than enough. (IMHO)

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Robin Grimmer — Wed, 20 May 2015 10:22:26 GMT

Also might be worth checking with the referral centre to see if there's any bad blood or unpaid bills with this client.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Will McMullan — Wed, 20 May 2015 09:42:33 GMT

In an episode of the 'This American Life' podcast, one of the reporters and his friend go into shops and ask for a 'good guy discount'. No specifics or major pleading. In 20-25% of the shops they got some sort of discount.

I agree with the other posters, it's up to you, if you give it to her you might get some good word-of-mouth, but it could lead to lots of begging. I think she's being a bit cheeky really.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Liz w — Wed, 20 May 2015 06:36:25 GMT

If you wish to give her a discount, fair enough. I think she's being cheeky telling you what discount is acceptable to her though.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Stephen Courtney — Tue, 19 May 2015 22:57:58 GMT

I would be inclined to be helpful if i could, but have to be honest i have no idea exactly what she is asking you for. Is it membership of your discount scheme without paying the monthly fee?

Only you can decide, it's your business, you need to weigh what this request really costs you vs the warm fuzzy feeling of helping someone out. I'm not sure I'd use the word blackmail, I don;t think that's fair, but comments about opening yourself up to hordes of scroungers are probably valid - I'd say to make sure if you do help her, you DON'T advertise...

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 19 May 2015 18:54:08 GMT

She sounds like a nightmare and imo has quite a nerve in asking for credit in advance for a routine non emergency procedure and holding you to some sort of emotional blackmail. My biggest problem is "we will always have dogs and look after them to the best of our ability." Pet ownership is a luxury not a right and it doesn't sound like she has been very sensible about it before now.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Gerry Henry — Tue, 19 May 2015 18:00:48 GMT

A daimen icker in a thrave's a sma request,

You'll get a blessing with the lave and ne'er miss it.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Dagmar Steele — Tue, 19 May 2015 17:25:07 GMT

[quote user="GrooveJet"] I think the goodwill and positive "word of mouth" might well make up for the few percent profit you lose directly from this client, no? Word your response warmly and encouragingly (as above).

[/quote]

While I agree that it's a good thing to be honest and forthcoming, there are two sides to this coin. "Word of mouth" may also mean that others in similar situations turn up at your door in flocks. You have to be very very careful to navigate these waters without ending up very annoyed.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Miriam Lodewyks — Tue, 19 May 2015 17:14:18 GMT

Hi Braden. My initial thoughts, like your's, were "no". But mulling it over a little, it occurs to me how refreshingly honest this client is being with you. And I think that deserves some recognition and applause. i'd like to think that if I ever fell on hard times, and had the courage and honesty to just ask for help, that someone would "cut me some slack". You don't need to sign her up to this scheme for life, but you could offer her a discount for a period of time, and perhaps allow her to pay in installments? I think the goodwill and positive "word of mouth" might well make up for the few percent profit you lose directly from this client, no? Word your response warmly and encouragingly (as above).

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Dagmar Steele — Tue, 19 May 2015 15:42:13 GMT

I am with Martin on this one.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 19 May 2015 14:21:31 GMT

[quote user="Braden Collins"]My request for your consideration is that you gift me a life membership to the Pet Care Rewards program.[/quote]I'm not clear what this means even though you've kind of explained how the scheme works. It reads as though she doesn't think she should have to pay anything.

A lot of clients pay a lot of money over the years and then fall on hard times and I will help them out by missing off an injection fee or dispensing fee or something similar. Only you know how much she has actually spent and how much you feel you can help out. It sounds as though she is partly the agent of her own misfortune if she spent shed loads against your better judgement.

My reply would be something like: 'Not to worry that Chester's booster is overdue, vaccines can last up to three years if they have been given regularly in the past so a little delay shouldn't do any harm. We will do our best to keep charges to a minimum but unfortunately I am not in a position to offer free treatment as this would be unfair on other clients who may be in a similar impecunious situation and at the end of the day I still have a business to run and staff to pay'.

Re: Am I heartless by saying no?

Bob Russell — Tue, 19 May 2015 14:07:12 GMT

What is the real cost to you? What is the cost of bad will should the owners kick up elsewhere? What browny points will you gain by helping someone out?

If it is genuine and you are giving away two consultations plus 5% off vaccinations then might be worthwhile. The bit that makes me suspicious is the request for a gift of lifetime membership of the loyalty scheme. Why ask for this and not just until she gets on her feet again?

Refusing is not, however, heartless.