Approaching clients

Re: Approaching clients

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 05 May 2015 12:14:58 GMT

I also embrace genuine clinical progress and new technology. I just wish it could be combined with old-fashioned behaviour. We would then have the best of both worlds.

The biggest problem with resources isn't people wanting to improve their standard of living - it's more and more people chasing the same finite resources.

Wynne

Re: Approaching clients

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 05 May 2015 11:07:40 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Unfortunately, it's not only in the veterinary field that standards we once took for granted are now ignored.[/quote]I don't want to sound like a replay of Monty Pythons 3 Yorkshiremen sketch because I'm really the last to see the past with rose tinted spectacles. I embrace progress and technology and appreciate that values change and have witnessed how blind faith in a professional can have devastating consequences cf Shipman or even to a lesser extent the dinovet, steroid king up the road.

We live in a world where availability of knowledge and ever increasing wealth empowers people which is not a bad thing until it leads to a dog eat dog world. It is human nature to strive to be better. To some that means being better people or better at our jobs. To too many this means accumulating more and more wealth at the expense of others. There are only so many resources in the world and the relentless pursuit of wealth will ultimately lead to our destruction individually and globally. Maybe that is a bit over-philosophical for the subject of this thread but in the end this what it comes down to.

In our profession it boils down to greed in the case of empire builders and desperation in the case of start-up clinics. Maybe in the end we just have to accept that the drop in what we considered good standards is not wrong its just different.

Re: Approaching clients

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 05 May 2015 10:51:26 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Niall Taylor"] OP has said they wouldn't be looking simply to undercut on price.[/quote]

No? Why else would he want to tender?

[/quote]

Because a tender is a written offer of the services and support you wish to supply at an agreed price. It doesn't mean you're trying to out-cheap the competition. The cheapest tender doesn't always win, if the support and service are better than 'el cheapo' the vet.

Re: Approaching clients

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 05 May 2015 10:27:01 GMT

Martin You can add me to that list. Unfortunately, it's not only in the veterinary field that standards we once took for granted are now ignored.

Wynne

Re: Approaching clients

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 05 May 2015 09:43:16 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]If that's gonna be the way of the world, it's still sh***y.[/quote]Sadly Evelyn we may be the last of a dying breed who thought our profession was above this sort of thing and although maybe don't rue the day that we were allowed to advertise have seen a steady progression of loss of values. Old fashioned it may be but I'm sad seeing the way our once proud profession has fallen and glad that I can retire any time soon when I've had enough.

Re: Approaching clients

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 02 May 2015 23:04:08 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"] OP has said they wouldn't be looking simply to undercut on price.[/quote]

No? Why else would he want to tender?

No matter. Even if he wanted to tell 'em how much better his procedures and techniques and equipment are (like the recent cheapjack no too far from me who proudly proclaims to the public "disinfectants! sterilised instruments! ") it's still grossly unprofessional and reprehensible.

If that's gonna be the way of the world, it's still sh***y.

Re: Approaching clients

Niall Taylor — Sat, 02 May 2015 20:56:10 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]No, it would be grossly unprofessional and reprehensible.[/quote]

But it would be very in keeping with the way the world and the veterinary profession works these days and not at all an unreasonable request, particularly as the OP has said they wouldn't be looking simply to undercut on price.

Audentes Fortuna Adiuvat, after all

Also, tempora mutantur, whether us old guys like it or not.

Niall

Re: Approaching clients

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 01 May 2015 15:15:57 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"] not in keeping with RCVS code of professional conduct, but would it be acceptable to say something along the lines of 'the next time you are thinking of offering your work out to tender we would be very interested in providing a quote'?[/quote]

No, it would be grossly unprofessional and reprehensible.

Re: Approaching clients

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 01 May 2015 13:50:52 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]on the morning we were presented with a protocol sheet dictating to us exactly what anaesthetic protocol we were to use[/quote]CP have some pretty dogmatic recommendations on anaesthetic/analgesia protocols some of which I don't think are up to the standard we use and they had a little dig at some of my prices. I just carry on in my own sweet way and if they don't like it lump it but I don't imagine there are too many practices rushing to do charity work.

Re: Approaching clients

Niall Taylor — Fri, 01 May 2015 12:44:03 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]The local practice I refer to is the one which just masks the neuters down, doesn't intubate, doesn't give post op analgesia and left them to recover on the floor because he didn't have enough cages[/quote]

Unbelievable anyone still works that way!

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"] I told her to ask him what his anaesthetic protocol was...[/quote]

On the extreme end of that one, we recently had a charity neuter to do (one of the tiny, set up in the back yard, holier-than-thou, know-it-all charities ) and on the morning we were presented with a protocol sheet dictating to us exactly what anaesthetic protocol we were to use! I gave them a ring and explained we'd do it the way we usually do or not at all. They gave the go-ahead to proceed, and even had the cheek to sound surprised I'd bothered to ring them about it

Cheers,

Niall

Re: Approaching clients

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 01 May 2015 11:54:14 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Any approach would not solely be based on price, but also on what we consider our high standards of practice. [/quote]Funny you should mention it but it happened the other way round here.

The local practice I refer to is the one which just masks the neuters down, doesn't intubate, doesn't give post op analgesia and left them to recover on the floor because he didn't have enough cages (as witnessed by one of my ex nurses who was a mole in the camp). When the local CP co-ordinator was talking about going to him because he was offering lower prices to get the custom I told her to ask him what his anaesthetic protocol was. She confronted him with the nurse's accusation, the proverbial hit the fan and he accused ME of being unprofessional trying to steal clients from him when CP have been mine since I set up in 1981. Needless to say sense prevailed and they still bring the vast majority of their work to me.

Re: Approaching clients

Braden Collins — Fri, 01 May 2015 10:58:04 GMT

I wouldn't enter this as a price thing, because you'll just end up doing more work for less money.

If you do approach them (I feel it is fair to approach them if done correctly and NOT on a price basis), approach them as a problem solver. Ask them what problems they currently have that you might be able to help them with, then see if you can fix those problems. It moves things away from being all about price and becomes all about quality - maybe what the profession should always focus on.

Re: Approaching clients

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 01 May 2015 10:27:08 GMT

I still agree with Martin on this one.

Wynne

Re: Approaching clients

An On MRCVS — Fri, 01 May 2015 10:20:03 GMT

For many years we haven't approached them for those exact reasons, because we refuse to enter that kind of price war. We are an independent practice and have always enjoyed good relationships with our rivals, and out of respect didn't do anything. Now that the practice in question is owned by a rather large impersonal entity, we would feel a little less guilty about trying to tender. The reason I'm asking for clarification/advice is that we respect the profession and the boundaries of competition that are particular to the veterinary world (any other business sphere and we would have contacted them years ago). Any approach would not solely be based on price, but also on what we consider our high standards of practice.

Re: Approaching clients

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 01 May 2015 10:00:16 GMT

I have steered clear of the price match/undercut mentality that is pervading the profession, at least locally. I do a good job and expect to charge a reasonable price for it. At what point does the service you provide suffer from the charges you make?

We do a lot of work for the local CP. They take odd cases to other vets when it is more convenient and one which is the stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap merchant (this isn't you is it Anon?) got his arse in his hand because because CP said they wouldn't tender when he approached them.

Personally I think it would be most unprofessional of you and verging on reprehensible. Has our once proud 'profession' really sunk that low?