Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Niall Taylor — Sat, 02 May 2015 21:02:26 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Tried and tested in humans but not in the format proposed by these snake oil salesmen. Myocristin is sodium aurothiomalate, a gold salt. these people are injecting gold particles. Not the same thing and discussed on a previous thread![/quote]

Ah, right, thanks for the clarification, I've found the thread.

Niall

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Bob Russell — Fri, 01 May 2015 13:28:58 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Sounds like the same people with the daft 'gold' injections for arthritis[/quote]

My mum was treated successfully with gold injections for arthritis for years, there's a considerable body of research supporting it and Arthritis UK endorses it. It's pretty mainstream in people-med - is it different with animals?

Niall

[/quote]

Tried and tested in humans but not in the format proposed by these snake oil salesmen. Myocristin is sodium aurothiomalate, a gold salt. these people are injecting gold particles. Not the same thing and discussed on a previous thread!

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Niall Taylor — Fri, 01 May 2015 12:51:48 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Sounds like the same people with the daft 'gold' injections for arthritis[/quote]

Niall

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Niall Taylor — Fri, 01 May 2015 12:48:31 GMT

[quote user="Sammy82"]

@Michael (it doesn't let me quote for some reason) No it was a client. My father is a he, and has never been pregnant to my knowledge

[/quote]

Excellent! That'll teach you to get your sentence construction correct, Michael. When I first read your post I did wonder how on earth Sammy82's daughter could also be her father

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Bob Russell — Fri, 01 May 2015 11:08:50 GMT

Sounds like the same people with the daft 'gold' injections for arthritis. Horse, cat and cow treated successfully for renal failure??? Gold bullet to the brain?

Sounds like a bunch of crooks. This has to be an act of surgery.

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Braden Collins — Fri, 01 May 2015 11:00:33 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

It is not even worthy of discussion.

[/quote]

Worth discussing so I can tell clients how stupid the idea is when they come in, rather than just being suprised by the coil at the time. Otherwise you're spot on Martin.

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 01 May 2015 10:19:56 GMT

Another who thinks it could cause very adverse welfare problems - as well as not working.

Wynne

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 01 May 2015 10:03:16 GMT

It is not even worthy of discussion.

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Dagmar Steele — Fri, 01 May 2015 09:37:32 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

In the video (I've put it down as 10 minutes CPD ) the dog has been "tranquillised" and tied down. By the time they've finished, it looks pretty deeply sedated to me.

[/quote]

I've now treated myself to the video "CPD" as well and I fully agree. 'twas actually very painful to watch, the fiddling with the scissors until the string was finally cut nearly drove me nuts. Some kind of advertisement... not!

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Sammy82 — Fri, 01 May 2015 08:40:35 GMT

@Michael (it doesn't let me quote for some reason) No it was a client. My father is a he, and has never been pregnant to my knowledge

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Busybee — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 23:49:21 GMT

Evelyn, these were exactly the parts I read aloud to my astonished nurse! Shocking claims and even more shocking spelling and grammar. ..

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 23:28:42 GMT

[quote user="Sammy82"]

Nothing is 100% (apart from hysterectomie and celibate) was told by someone that she got pregnant after having her tubes tied plus being on the pill.

[/quote]

Sounds like someone was trying to frighten their teenage daughter out of sex. Was it your father?

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 21:31:42 GMT

[quote user="Dagmar Steele"] Apart from this I doubt that any dog will have this implanted without GA unless it's been pressed down to the floor by at least four people....[/quote]

In the video (I've put it down as 10 minutes CPD ) the dog has been "tranquillised" and tied down. By the time they've finished, it looks pretty deeply sedated to me.

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 21:16:13 GMT

"The Intrauterine Device for dogs cannot disturb any of the hormones "

Oh good. But then:

"Being a foreign object in uterus, the spiral causes moderate aseptic inflammation what increases the number of neutrophils which phagocyte spermatozoa. Being under moderate aseptic inflammation, the uterine wall becomes thinne,r and merge of the embryo to the uterine wall is not possible.

Literature also notes an increase in the level of hormone prostaghlandin. "

On the other hand:

"Spaying causes scar tissue , which blocks the normal energy flow of the body. The Contraceptive Uterine Device for dogs does not do this."

How very reassuring.

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Sammy82 — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 21:10:03 GMT

Nothing is 100% (apart from hysterectomie and celibate) was told by someone that she got pregnant after having her tubes tied plus being on the pill.

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Dagmar Steele — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 21:05:41 GMT

Looking at the anatomical differences between women and bitches I doubt this will work even as an contraceptive. Which part of the canine uterus is it supposed to be in, the left or the right? And what about the other half, are we sure no embryos will develop in it? Apart from this I doubt that any dog will have this implanted without GA unless it's been pressed down to the floor by at least four people.... I can already figure out the bad press this will give any vet who attempts to do it. Furthermore many other remedies promoted on the webpage are more on the dubious side IMO, overall a no go. I doubt that this will make it to the shelves really.

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 21:00:24 GMT

[quote user="Sammy82"] I would also worry about causing unnescessary suffering. A lot of women have it removed because of pain, but dogs won't tell us about their constant niggling pelvic pain unless it is severe.[/quote]

And it isn't 100% effective in humans.

What a daft idea.

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Sammy82 — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:55:18 GMT

From the sparse information I could find it seems to be a copper IUD. Should work fine for contraception, but certainly doesn't prevent mammary tumours or pyos. And it says no GA required for insertion. No way would even the most stoic Labrador let you do it. I would also worry about causing unnescessary suffering. A lot of women have it removed because of pain, but dogs won't tell us about their constant niggling pelvic pain unless it is severe. So, all in all, I do not think that it is a good idea. I can already see the discussion with owners coming who saw it on the internet and want it for their dog (or even order it and demand it being put in during consult)

Re: Contraceptive coil for dogs...be warned!

Joyce Whitehead — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:31:26 GMT

I would have concerns on several levels with this. My main one would be this statement: "Certain reacher experience with this method of contraception does not exist, there are only certain analogies with human application". Now we all know dogs are not humans, have completely different forms of reproductive cycle, and this statement seems to suggest to me that this is backed up by no trials unless I'm reading it wrongly. I also read one of the statements as suggesting that the whole application can take two hours, although only 10 minutes to insert the device. Is it even possible to get through a bitch cervix unless they are in season? (Genuine question to which I don't know the answer I'm ashamed to say). Sorry for no paragraphs, on an iPad.