Ethics.

Re: Ethics.

Robert Lowe — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:47:32 GMT

If you are uncomfortable with receiving the money why not look at what good you could do with the money once the cat passes on.

1. Setup a charity even if it just distributes the money to other charities

2. Use the funds to setup a hardship fund for patients of the practice

3. If you own the practice then look at funding a training position for disadvantaged people etc.

All of this could be setup with the agreement of the client beforehand and might mitigate the perceived personal gain by any relatives out there.

Re: Ethics.

Gerry Henry — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:35:30 GMT

TAKE THE MONEY !

Re: Ethics.

Anthony Todd — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 12:01:54 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

It wasn't me but I despair of red stars with no explanation until challenged and Arlo should make them conditional on a relevant response.

They just detract from the forum and achieve

only irritation and distraction.

If it is personal, red star the post and reply ASAP "Personal attack" ie if a poster says Joe Bloggs is a XXX etc.

Of course if you don't agree with the red star you can just change it to 5 golds which I have just done.

This may solve the problem?

[/quote]

Re: Ethics.

Anthony Todd — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:57:07 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]The employer would appear to have little say as this is not a gift but a responsibility handed over to an individual.[/quote]

The same could be argued for every veterinary surgeon treating any animal.

I say again, if the employee was employed by a company and the benefit was large enough I'm sure a legal opinion would be needed, or would be sought, and not by the employee!!

The situation is in the realms of "intellectual property", call it "emotional property" and, I suspect it may be "owned" by the employer.

Re: Ethics.

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:42:10 GMT

Seriously An-On's ecxeedingly ethical stance may have had an effect on everyone's behaviour.

Wynne

Re: Ethics.

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:40:51 GMT

Martin Very very rarely. A frontal attack is my usual style, and I did immediately follow the red star with a reasoned criticism.

Wynne

Re: Ethics.

Bob Russell — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:40:07 GMT

I would happily take the money (subject to legal advice). I would feel honour bound to make sure the pet was well cared for.

The employer would appear to have little say as this is not a gift but a responsibility handed over to an individual.

Talk to a solicitor and decide if you wish to agree to the owner's request or politely decline. Don't let them give the money to one of the biggest charities as at least one has taken the money and euthanased the pet!

Re: Ethics.

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:36:21 GMT

[quote user="Luca Poddighe"]nd I did own up the red star quite a few posts before,[/quote]Bloody hell what's this a day of contrition - is everyone going to confess to being red star man?

Re: Ethics.

Luca Poddighe — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:31:53 GMT

And I did own up the red star quite a few posts before, without significant explanation that came later, when solicited. I don't think that I would smash anyone face, I'm a very pacific person if you would know me, by the way I don't really have the physical presentation to smash anyone face I'm more likely to injury my hand . As I mentioned to not agree with the post and the approach described doesn't mean that is point is not valid and that Braden was wrong in putting it in evidence.

Re: Ethics.

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:31:49 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

I was the one who gave the 1st red star.

Wynne

[/quote]Ditto my reply to Luca then. Actually I always suspected you were red star (wo)man.

Re: Ethics.

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:14:27 GMT

I was the one who gave the 1st red star.

Wynne

Re: Ethics.

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:12:17 GMT

[quote user="Braden Collins"]At least some of the red star people had the decency to explain why they gave them.[/quote]

[quote user="Luca Poddighe"]I will give my reason.

[/quote]Well at least you owned up to being being red star man. It is not your point of view that is an issue you may vehemently disagree with someone and feel like smashing them in the face (actually only Clive does that :-)) but you should have the courage/decency to immediately back up your red star with the next post not admit to it sometime later. Better still just reply without giving a star rating.

Re: Ethics.

Luca Poddighe — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 10:55:57 GMT

[quote user="Braden Collins"]At least some of the red star people had the decency to explain why they gave them. Always happy to get a red star with a reason attached.[/quote]

I will give my reason. I don't think this situation can be compared with a present. I don't think the lady has elected the OP as a legal guardian not because is a good vet but because of the human being behind the tunic, that cannot be transferred. The responsibilities associated with the acceptance are significant and involving the personal time of the OP and as mentioned before the money produced by the properties, according the OP, should be sufficient to the care of the bills for the practice to grant a good health care of the pet, therefore it will not constitute a loss to the practice. You may even be right on the legal ground but is on the human ground that I gave the red star. Nevertheless you have said something that had to be said because is a possible complication of the situation. I can understand that the OP is much troubled by the offer and I understand why.

Re: Ethics.

Luca Poddighe — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 09:56:02 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]A clause in the contract stating that unauthorised discounts constituted a disciplinary offence would solve that problem, without being mean.[/quote]

And by the way it is a very bad habit for an employee, you should charged as you are instructed too. If you're authorized to use your discretion that's fine but it shouldn't conflict with the interest of the surgery.

Re: Ethics.

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:49:22 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Braden Collins"]I think I have just had my personal red star record broken on this one.[/quote]

Mate, you're way behind me.....

[/quote]

I know, but we all have our guiding inspirations! (I do but jest!)

Re: Ethics.

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:14:36 GMT

A clause in the contract stating that unauthorised discounts constituted a disciplinary offence would solve that problem, without being mean.

However we are getting a long long way from the original posting. The OP (who is a highly honourable person, who has my utmost admiration) has a moral difficulty.

Wynne

Re: Ethics.

Gerry Henry — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 19:33:12 GMT

Dear Anon, look, clearly you're a bit conflicted by this, I however am not, in fact I dream about similar scenarios every waking hour as I grind through another day ... so, why don't you pass the dear old pension provider chap over to me and I'll take care of everything.

Best wishes

Re: Ethics.

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:18:50 GMT

Re: Ethics.

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 15:32:40 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Braden Collins"]At least some of the red star people had the decency to explain why they gave them. Always happy to get a red star with a reason attached.[/quote]There should be no need to red star if a reason is posted. Red star givers are cowards, unless I'm giving one to Anthony because I've given up the will to reply live.

[/quote]

Re: Ethics.

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 14:25:08 GMT

Re: Ethics.

Braden Collins — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 14:07:52 GMT

At least some of the red star people had the decency to explain why they gave them. Always happy to get a red star with a reason attached.

Re: Ethics.

Anthony Todd — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:12:11 GMT

[quote user="Braden Collins"]I think I have just had my personal red star record broken on this one.[/quote]

Mate, you're way behind me.....

Re: Ethics.

Braden Collins — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:10:43 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Braden Collins"] This is very much an issue that does and will involve the clinic, so they need some input.[/quote]

So a client dies and leaves £1,000,000 to Janet Bloggs, MRCVS an employed vet at MEGAVETS Uk Ltd, a public company.

What's the legal position?

If there is no case law there soon would be......

[/quote]

Thanks Anthony, I'm glad someone understood what I was getting at.

I think I have just had my personal red star record broken on this one.

Re: Ethics.

Anthony Todd — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 12:54:34 GMT

[quote user="Braden Collins"] This is very much an issue that does and will involve the clinic, so they need some input.[/quote]

So a client dies and leaves £1,000,000 to Janet Bloggs, MRCVS an employed vet at MEGAVETS Uk Ltd, a public company.

What's the legal position?

If there is no case law there soon would be......

Re: Ethics.

Braden Collins — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 12:37:15 GMT

I think anyone would be wrong to force such a thing to be handed to the clinic. As I said, I doubt we would enforce such a thing (though it would be judged on a case by case basis), but we would seriously look at something like this if a staff member presented it to us to see how we should react as a clinic. If the senile old person leaves stuff to a staff member, are we suddenly going to be slammed on Facebook/google by annoyed family members. This is very much an issue that does and will involve the clinic, so they need some input.

.We have that clause for several reasons. It avoids a conflict of interest when it comes to unofficial discounts in repaying expensive gifts. It avoids conflict with clients when it comes to "but I gave them this". It also keeps it clear that it is a client/vet relationship at all times. the client belongs to the clinic, not the vet.

We have never worried about anything our staff get, though it is expected that anything that can be shared such as hampers, etc do get shared.

I raised the point because we don't know the OP's employment conditions and it could become a problem from a point of view they hadn't considered. If the OP works for a corporate, does it mention anything like this in contracts?