PgC in SAS by Improve International. Is it really worth it?

Re: PgC in SAS by Improve International. Is it really worth it?

Michelle Lambert — Fri, 15 May 2015 15:37:56 GMT

Hi Francisco,

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions. I can put you in touch with one of our graduated students if you like? He is more than happy to chat to potential delegates about his experience. My email is m.lambert@bsava.com or call me on 01452 726700.

Re: PgC in SAS by Improve International. Is it really worth it?

Francisco Gomez — Thu, 14 May 2015 21:09:07 GMT

Thank you Carolyn, Yes, I'm still considering and I will be calling BSAVA. I just not sure if there are still places, I'm not bad at computers but I couldnt' manage to get myself registered in the website.

Thank you!!!

Re: PgC in SAS by Improve International. Is it really worth it?

Carolyn — Thu, 14 May 2015 17:34:07 GMT

Hello,

Not sure if you are still considering the cert, but I thought I'd put my opinion on board!

I am currently in the third year of the BSAVA SAS cert. I have found it excellent, both in terms of interesting lectures and practical CPD days, and the very useful, comprehensive online activities. The support is very good if you need it, but to be honest I have only started making good use of my mentor in this final year, now I am writing my casebook. (There are 20 CPD days spread over the first two years,the third year is dedicated to casebook writing).

I live in Lincolnshire, and the only annoying bit was that the lectures were all in Manchester or Gloucester, with practicals either in Huntingdon or Bristol (ie not very close!). Fortunately the course fees were paid by my practice but hotels/transport was all out of my pocket (fair enough).

The written exam was tough (at end of the second year) but fair.

I am most definitely a more confident surgeon now. There are procedures I had barely heard of that I am happy to attempt, and have had good results. My orthopedics has improved in leaps and bounds. I did find that the risks of surgery were highlighted significantly during the course, which has made me avoid certain procedures as I don't think we have the facilities, nor I the skill to attempt them safely (eg laryngeal tie back/PSS). I am more confident advising clients about referral procedures even if I am not able to do them.

All in all, a great investment! Feel free to PM me if you want more information.

Re: PgC in SAS by Improve International. Is it really worth it?

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 01 May 2015 16:05:19 GMT

... so I was ready to get to it and apply when BANG! ...

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

£8316.00 for the two years, £4536.00/year or £481.55/month. Plus VAT.

It's there on the Improve site if you look at the courses further down the list that haven't started yet.

[/quote]

they tell me that those are old prices and that the new website is not up yet.

I, of course, want to see all my options. Any of you had done the BSAVA certificate in Surgery? What did you think? Since the prices are going to be very similar, I'm looking into it. Also I live in the Derbyshire so Nottingham University is quite close.

Did you have much support with it?

Were theory and practical days rammed in the same session, and if so, did you find that sometimes not enough time was dedicated to the practical bit?

If they assign you a mentor, is it really a mentor?

and most importantly, Did find that you could undertake procedures confidently that you couldn't undertake before?

Re: PgC in SAS by Improve International. Is it really worth it?

Sam — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 16:27:09 GMT

I have done the soft tissue part of this course. It was a really well structured course and the speakers were excellent. There was plenty of time to practice the skills in the practical sessions.

During the course I was able to take on more complex surgical cases in my practice, so I made back most of the cost of the course itself in the same year. It was certainly a good investment for me.

I would have liked to complete year two, but my assistant went on maternity leave and I could not get locum cover.

I would recommend the course and I have nothing to do with Improve apart from having taken some of their courses.

Re: PgC in SAS by Improve International. Is it really worth it?

Francisco Gomez — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:57:15 GMT

Ha ha ha.. thats what i was expecting :-)

Re: PgC in SAS by Improve International. Is it really worth it?

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 14:13:13 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

I don't know how I'm going to pay it yet. Thing is, the way is advertised you've got to ask for the price first.

I'm hoping is a 'few' grands rather than 'a lot of' grands

[/quote]

Are you sitting down?

Make sure you are.

Final welfare check

£8316.00 for the two years, £4536.00/year or £481.55/month. Plus VAT.

It's there on the Improve site if you look at the courses further down the list that haven't started yet.

Re: PgC in SAS by Improve International. Is it really worth it?

Francisco Gomez — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 09:40:18 GMT

Thank you Michael.

I'll answer from bottom to top.

I don't know how I'm going to pay it yet. Thing is, the way is advertised you've got to ask for the price first.

I'm hoping is a 'few' grands rather than 'a lot of' grands The practice probably will help me out, but I'm sure I will have to put a bit from my own pocket and use some of my holidays towards it. Which I have no problem with. I decided to be a vet, and to me that means that you'll have to do 'vet things' sometimes when not at work.

I looked at the BSAVA last couple of years, and the problem was their vacancies filled up quickly so I didn't have a chance.

C modules are all right, but in surgery, the modules are pretty much there so you can prove what you can do, rather than learning new things. So it isn't the route I want to take. (or should take)

I considered your points and there is something that appealed me quite a bit:

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

There is nothing stopping you spending some time with a specialist or diplomat if you identify areas where you need practical improvement. Courses such as these give you contact and an introduction to these specialists - I have amassed quite a healthy list of email addresses and contacts that are very useful at times. There is nothing stopping you trying to spend some time with one of the tutors you meet through the course.

[/quote]

That's what I think I need!

Re: PgC in SAS by Improve International. Is it really worth it?

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 22:24:19 GMT

My view on this is very simple - there is nothing better to invest in than yourself and your staff. There is no point spending good money on a fancy bit of kit and then having no-one who knows how to drive it or an interest in driving it.

We all need to do CPD, and my view is that might as well be a structured programme rather than ad hoc convenient meetings or a piss up at congress. I tend to think there are three (maybe four, see below) motivations for doing something like a certificate:

Increased knowledge for the individual. We are selected from bright achievers. We relish the challenge of academic learning and intellectual growth. I defy anyone to go through the process and not learn anything.
As a result of my first point the individual is more enthused and better informed. This should lead to better care for the patients. Better, thorough vetting is good business - keeps clients bonded and happy, keeps work in the practice that may have been referred. May even bring in work from local practices if there is something novel.
External validation of the individual. Would you advise pet owners take advice on vaccinations from a non MRCVS? The qualification shows that the person has been externally verified in an area (just like your MRCVS does). It says to me that they've had the gumption to get off their arse and do the work. A vet with postgraduate qualifications is judged at a higher level by RCVS disciplinary. If I see an article by an unknown author I look after their name to see what qualifications they hold.

I would like to say that whilst I agree these are important for personal and professional growth, they are not the only way of judging a good/great vet.

I think in the future increasing numbers of vets will go on studying and gain further qualifications. Human doctors don't get dropped out of medical school and think 'well, that's me for the next 40 years". I can only speak personally, but I find learning stimulating. It is a great way of challenging the way you think and handle cases. I've had conversations with my wife (who's doing her sheep cert) over cases that would not have happened a couple of years ago. There is no doubt in my mind we are better vets for the process. It would strike me as a great shame to get to the point of enhanced working without anything to show for that, and externally verify those facts to our peers. You never know when a change in personal circumstances might require you to hold additional qualifications or pay negotiations in a new job might go very differently...............

(my point 4 on my list would be a degree of future proofing of myself. You never know when you might want (or need) to move out of clinical practice into industry, academia or a new role).

Going back to your OP - I have absolutely no doubt that a structured surgery course such as you describe will improve your surgical skills and confidence. You can learn valuable things without doing any (much) practical surgery. It's about improvement in your technique and building your confidence. There is nothing stopping you spending some time with a specialist or diplomat if you identify areas where you need practical improvement. Courses such as these give you contact and an introduction to these specialists - I have amassed quite a healthy list of email addresses and contacts that are very useful at times. There is nothing stopping you trying to spend some time with one of the tutors you meet through the course.

Make sure you also look at the BSAVA course - they have a similar offering with a similar end qualification. Compare the content of both and see which gives you better value for money. Also don't discount the value you already have from your CertAVP work - you can add C modules (some offer taught courses) to add a surgery qualification to whatever you have achieved so far - one of the beauties of the modular system. In terms of points at level 7 they all sit at 60 credits - none are worth more or less in pure academic terms.

How are you funding the course? (Ignore if too personal)