Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Anthony Todd — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 15:18:53 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]Actually when I worked in Australia I used to quite regularly microchip puppies at 2-4 weeks of age, and to be honest it was much easier then than at 8-12 weeks[/quote]

Yeah, age wouldn't bother me [Westies will always scream whatever age and whatever needle] but, as with motor vehicles, why not "register" them ie chip them, when sold, or when the animal becomes the property of a "beneficial owner".

It'll be total chaos trying to find to whom a lost pedigree pup belongs, aged about 1, sex male, chipped by a breeder in Wales, no further information.......

Chip at second vaccination or 12 weeks would be sensible and obvious.

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Stephen Courtney — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 13:16:16 GMT

The authorities are frightened of dealing with hoodlums with pitbull type breeds, just as they don't stand up to these people for any other antisocial behaviours they manifest.

the only people who will comply will be the people who already obey the law, and the only people who will be prosecuted for not obeying will be the elderly, the ill-informed and the accidental breeders.

there is no point adding new legislation when existing laws are ignored out of expedience or ignorance.

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Hannah Jordan — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 11:20:57 GMT

The Government consulted on these regulations (although that doesn't always mean much) and arrived at 8 weeks on the basis that puppies should be chipped and registered where they are bred for traceability purposes. Lord Trees raised about eight points in committee (which I am sure were also raised by vets during consultation) regarding this legislation, but the Government seemed reluctant to change anything. The spirit of this legislation is sold as reuniting a lost dog with its owner, but hopefully it will aid tying a truly dangerous dog to its owner (currently they just say it isn't theirs), and tightening up on breeding and imports more generally. In reality, this is unlikely to do any good unless local authorities start to receive funding for enforcement beyond the bare statutory minimum.

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 11:20:15 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Why were the BVA and BSAVA not screaming for opinions as soon as they heard about compulsory microchipping? Or are they considered they so irrelevant that they too heard the news on the 'Today' programme?

[/quote]

BSAVA for one had a consultation on the subject; i got several emails on the subject and a double page summary in Companion magazine - if that's not shouting, not sure what is?

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Sally Everitt — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 10:00:37 GMT

I am sorry that some people do not feel that the BSAVA has done enough to consult or inform members on compulsory microchipping. The BSAVA has carried out a number of member consultations in relation to compulsory microchipping, dating back several years and covering all 4 countries of the UK which are working to different timescales on this. We inform members of consultations through the website, member newsletters, emails and, where time allows through articles or news feature in companion. However, if anyone has any suggestions relating to how we can better engage our members in the consultation process please do let us know.

With respect to the detail of The Microchipping of Dogs (England) Regulations we tried to bring the likely contents to public attention with a lecture from Defra and a panel discussion with the CVO’s at BSAVA Congress 2014. However we were not consulted on the detail of these proposals or given an opportunity to comment and have not publicised them yet as we are still trying to get clarification on how they will be applied in practice.

With respect to the microchipping of very small puppies veterinary surgeons should be aware that they will be able to issue a certificate of exemption from microchipping for a period of time if they consider that a dog should not be microchipped for reasons of the animal’s health.

Veterinary practices should also be aware of two other provisions of the new regulations relating to the training required for implantation of microchips (although veterinary surgeons and RVN’s acting under their direction are exempt from this requirement) and the new offence of failing to report adverse reactions relating to microchips, including microchip failure and migration. We are still trying to get clarification around these provisions and there will again be a Big Issues session at Congress at 9am on Saturday morning at which this will be discussed by a panel including CVOs from Scotland and Northern Ireland as well as from the RCVS and VDS. More details can be found on the BSAVA website http://www.bsava.com/Congress/Scientificprogramme/BigIssuesatCongress.aspx.

As soon as we can provide useful information we will make it available to everyone on our website and in all available communication to our members. We know this is important.

Sally Everitt - Head of Scientific Policy BSAVA

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Bob Russell — Tue, 31 Mar 2015 12:33:06 GMT

My point is that neither BSAVA or BVA seem to have made much effort to contact their members to get views on something with such massive implications as compulsory microchipping let alone the daft idea that it should be compulsory by 8 weeks of age.

I accept I do have a financial interest in continuing to chip my patients. We use the thermometer chips and find them useful. We also use chips that have a pretty rock solid lifetime guarantee!

I am inundated with emails, mostly selling the latest CPD, have a recycling skip of periodicals, veterinary newspapers and journals. I work through them all, most of the time and most all of the time.

The profession needs to lead, not follow months or even years later, giving good advice that nobody is listening to.

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Kate Richardson — Tue, 31 Mar 2015 12:32:40 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]I'm not at all sure how to deal with he inevitable request to chip a litter of chihuahuas or similar sized animals at 7 or 8 weeks...something that gives me the shivers.[/quote]I don't know why people have problems with this. When you've chipped tortoises, birds and 6 week dwarf rabbits a litter of chihuahuas is nowt to bother about. I had more of an issue with the Alligator one client wanted microchipping!!

[/quote]

Actually when I worked in Australia I used to quite regularly microchip puppies at 2-4 weeks of age, and to be honest it was much easier then than at 8-12 weeks

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 31 Mar 2015 12:19:32 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Found a small paragraph in April 2012 BVA newsletter [/quote]I can't decide if its impressive or sad that you still have BVA newsletters from 3 years ago Bob. Mine go via the recycling bin as soon as they are (not!) read.

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Stephen Courtney — Tue, 31 Mar 2015 12:12:58 GMT

It was in some sort of BSAVA communication , possibly an email, or possibly the regular regional nr=ewsletter. i contributed because i thought it was a bad idea.

As current laws are only patchily enforced, adding new laws will not improve anything, just make it easier for people to inadvertently break the law.

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Bob Russell — Tue, 31 Mar 2015 11:14:50 GMT

The profession seems to be singularly incapable of communicating. I considered myself up to date with most veterinary politics. As this was yet another complete surprise to me it is pretty obvious that I am missing a lot of things.

I have checked through my emails and failed to find anything (going back forever) form the BVA or BSAVA to request my opinion or forewarn me of problems ahead.

8 weeks is unworkable and I cannot see how this was not completely obvious to those responsible for the legislation.

Back to checking my emails!

Found a small paragraph in April 2012 BVA newsletter but only regarding tackling irresponsible dog ownership.

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Liz w — Tue, 31 Mar 2015 10:23:35 GMT

I'm with Stephen on this, and just because it could be done that age, doesn't mean it should be done.

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Luca Poddighe — Tue, 31 Mar 2015 10:01:32 GMT

I will bring my experience from Sardinia in Italy, since in 1994 my regional government put in place a law regarding pets including dog microchip as a legal requirement for the possess one in order to reduce the rate of neglect. I will put in evidence that every pet had to be microchip by the age of 2 months or as early as possible if bought older and not already microchipped (this probably was a transitory part until program was fully operative), and owners could get a chip implanted for free by the italian national health service (ASL). Unfortunately laws, particularly in the area in which they tend to be disregarded, are as good as the power of enforcement that you put in place to grant their respect and so, after a first period of enthusiastic application with a lot of fines for no compliant owners, everything has gone more relaxed and so people that doesn't want to lose a pet (or have it stolen) will still put a chip but bad owners, that will abandon their pets on the motorway when they leave for summer holidays, don't care. So despite of having a good law results are lacking.

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 31 Mar 2015 09:13:21 GMT

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Braden Collins — Tue, 31 Mar 2015 02:05:08 GMT

It's 12 weeks for dogs and 6 months for cats over here. Much more sensible ages.

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Charlotte Marshall — Mon, 30 Mar 2015 22:30:08 GMT

I'd been waiting to find out what age it was going to be. I hate chipping them that young especially teeny, tiny yorkies and Chihuahuas!

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Stephen Courtney — Mon, 30 Mar 2015 22:29:31 GMT

There was consultation on this and vets were invited to contribute. Once again we appear to have shot ourselves collectively in he foot.

I contributed to a consultation on this that was put out but the BSVA, and they represented the profession at higher levels. i presume the BVA did something similar.

All the drawbacks to this legislation were things that I foresaw, and commented on, along with a comment that existing animal welfare legislation would be sufficient if current laws were enforced properly.

I think the only people who will get prosecuted for not chipping their pups will be accidental or one off breeders who 'just have a litter' - not the scary hoodlums with status dogs whom this is targeted at anyway. Puppy farmers will simply chip their own pups,

I'm not at all sure how to deal with he inevitable request to chip a litter of chihuahuas or similar sized animals at 7 or 8 weeks...something that gives me the shivers.

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 30 Mar 2015 15:09:36 GMT

The sell 'em cheap and stack 'em high practice near me microchips a lot of puppies but not all (presumably with 99p chips) as a means of identity for that pup, not for accountability of its owner breeder as he is actually on record admitting to me that he doesn't even bother taking the names and addresses of the dodgy breeders/dealers he deals with because they'd likely give a false identity anyway and just hands out blank vaccination certificates.. What does this say about a) the breeders, b) the vet. Try not to use too many 4 letter expletives in your replies! And further more what's the point of bothering at all under those circumstances 8 weeks or not.

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Bob Russell — Mon, 30 Mar 2015 14:05:58 GMT

12 or even 16 weeks makes sense. How many non-professional breeders will know the rules let alone abide by them. Why make rules that cannot sensibly be complied with?

I doubt anyone in the 'real' veterinary world was even consulted. 8 weeks would be ideal in a theoretical world where all puppies came from responsible breeders. Sounds like the government consulted the Kennel Club and Dogs Trust.

I have to say I did not even dream that someone would be daft enough to insist on 8 week chipping. A bit like some of the medicine regulations - too daft to believe!

Re: Microchipping by 8 weeks of age

Joyce Whitehead — Mon, 30 Mar 2015 14:01:46 GMT

And of course although lots of pups will be chipped, the chips will be registered (if at all) to the wrong person. As the KC advise breeders to keep pups till they are 8 weeks old before rehoming. This is nonsense. And who is going to police it? If we get a 10 week old unchipped pup in, what do we do? Presumably just chip and register. If the regulations stated 12 weeks, so the age most pups would be starting to be out and about, this would make a lot more sense.