Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Steve Johnson — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 14:35:28 GMT

Looking for permission Jon?

Anyone in mind..?

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

David Mills — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 10:27:48 GMT

Mrs Molyneaux, how this love wounds (me).

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 10:26:02 GMT

I'm glad we're not at the "WWJGWD" stage of vetsurgeon!

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 23:04:52 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]only the anodyne that usually get elected.[/quote]

Because of the "first six past the post" system.

Fans of the anodyne vote for them, but so do those who have voted for one or two radicals they really wish elected and are looking for names they have heard of to fill up their six.

Moral: don't vote for anyone you are not burning to see elected. You do not have to vote for six people.

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Anthony Todd — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 19:46:37 GMT

+1 although for reasons I can never understand it is only the anodyne that usually get elected.

I do detect a groundswell of rebellion and disenchantment fostered, to be sure, by this very forum.

Long may it continue!

Particularly those with an axe to bury; not an axe to grind or just polish.

P.S. I have only voted for posters on here and that sound un-anodyne......

Dr Wray and Malcolm Ness would be superb candidates next time, even if for different reasons.

[I wish the forum had been around before the VMD.....]

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Jo Dyer — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 15:02:21 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]I think Dr Wray should offer himself as a candidate next time.I can't think of a pricklier bedfellow to send to council, and hold them to count if need be.[/quote]

My thoughts precisely!

In life, we can stand on the sidelines whingeing (sometimes for years and years), or we can push ourselves out of our comfort zone and try and do something to improve things. JGW, it is obviously important to you; you know a great deal about it; you're a practising vet, and you wouldn't even have far to commute - so why don't you go for it next year?

Just sayin'

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 13:11:56 GMT

Arlo I'm still waiting for my sunflowers (or, at least a painting of)

Wynne

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 12:23:03 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]But you are a bigger voice in the profession than most [/quote][quote user="J G Wray"]I don't think so[/quote]

A bit Punch and Judy, but "Oh yes you are".

[quote user="J G Wray"]Did I ever set out to impress you?[/quote]

Never said you did. Never even crossed my mind.

[quote user="J G Wray"]If you really don't like what I write then there's always the option of blocking/banning me.[/quote]

No, it's not really an option.

Still, it'd be nice if you ever answered a direct question directly.

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

J G Wray — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 11:58:31 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]But you are a bigger voice in the profession than most [/quote]

I don't think so

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I'm rather disappointed with those answers, though. I suppose I liked to think that the person behind all the invective was actually trying to do something positive (even if I happen to think their modus operandi is singularly misguided, in a raw-meaty-bones-sort-of-way). Evidently not.[/quote]

Did I ever set out to impress you?

You've provided a forum. If you really don't like what I write then there's always the option of blocking/banning me. It's your game after all.

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 10:39:11 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]The onus was placed on RCVS to better the engagement of the profession. You've heard how erstwhile RCVS Councillors know they need to do better, so your contention that RCVS have no need to incetivise is at odds with the direction to do so and internal recognition of the need. Just sayin'[/quote]

I concede. I didn't word myself well. 30:0, Guthrie to serve.

[quote user="J G Wray"][quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Secondly, nice way of abrogating your responsibility (the 84% are not influenced by me), but completely untrue. We all influence others. And some people, just by virtue of the fact that they are noisier or more vociferous than others, influence more people. You are posting in a widely-read forum, and you should take personal responsibility that your carping DOES influence. [/quote]

I am a bit puzzled by this. What makes you think I'm not prepared to take responsibility for what I write here? As for the 84% thing ask any of them whether what I write here stopped them voting. I have enough respect for my peers' capacitiy to make their own minds up to believe I ain't responsible for the dismal election turnout. Whaddaythink?[/quote]

When someone says:

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]I don't think constantly banging on about "RCVS" being out of touch , vexatious, etc motivates anyone and what does it achieve apart from spreading worry and making voting seem futile. [/quote]

and you reply:

[quote user="J G Wray"]he 84% who don't vote are not influenced by me.[/quote]

What you are saying is: "it's not my fault people don't vote".

But it is! OK - maybe you aren't single-handedly responsible for every one of the 84% that don't vote. But you are a bigger voice in the profession than most and, to my mind, your constant and unremitting negativity (not just on this site) is statistically likely to have a negative effect on voting. Ergo you have to accept some responsibility, and not just excuse yourself by saying 'not my fault / people not influenced by me'. That's a cop out.

[quote user="J G Wray"]Gently be it put and to repeat what I have written several times, I think my opinion is worth the square root of very little and as a consequence has little influence on grand concepts liike "A positive force for good?"[/quote]

Then why do you put so much effort into venting your spleen? What's the point? What DOES motivate you?

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]b) How you think the people at the RCVS view you? [/quote]Don't know [/quote]

Well, fair enough, I guess if you are not trying to influence people, it doesn't matter what they think of you.

I'm rather disappointed with those answers, though. I suppose I liked to think that the person behind all the invective was actually trying to do something positive (even if I happen to think their modus operandi is singularly misguided, in a raw-meaty-bones-sort-of-way). Evidently not.

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

bob lehner — Fri, 03 Apr 2015 10:33:55 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]There you (Van) Gogh![/quote]

Not a bad joke Mark - but very dependent upon how you pronounce the great man's name - see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLTQv8RH1TE

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Stephen Courtney — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 23:32:45 GMT

I think Dr Wray should offer himself as a candidate next time.I can't think of a pricklier bedfellow to send to council, and hold them to count if need be.

I must admit, rather shamefacedly, that for years i have believed that the majority of council members are unelected appointees - to my surprise the majority are elected - by the membership - and this means it is even more important to get proper practitioners to stand.

Please ditch the cynicism and VOTE!

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

J G Wray — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 18:36:25 GMT

I guess not

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 18:10:13 GMT

Arlo Do you have any sunflowers to spare? If you can't find any real ones, then a painting would be an acceptable substitute.

Wynne

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

J G Wray — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 17:06:49 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Firstly, it's not down to the RCVS to provide you with an incentive. The RCVS is the regulator. Veterinary surgeons have the privilege of having some say over how they are regulated. If 84% don't see that as a benefit, perhaps the profession should cease to be self-regulating.[/quote]

The RCVS received a firm directive at EFRACOM to become more informed of the views of the profession in its activities. The election turnout is lamentable, but because of the premise of the election and the number of them it is a barometer of the profession's engagement. The onus was placed on RCVS to better the engagement of the profession. You've heard how erstwhile RCVS Councillors know they need to do better, so your contention that RCVS have no need to incetivise is at odds with the direction to do so and internal recognition of the need. Just sayin'

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Secondly, nice way of abrogating your responsibility (the 84% are not influenced by me), but completely untrue. We all influence others. And some people, just by virtue of the fact that they are noisier or more vociferous than others, influence more people. You are posting in a widely-read forum, and you should take personal responsibility that your carping DOES influence. [/quote]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]JGW, I'd be interested to know:[/quote]

You tease, you saying this, ....oh all right then

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]a) How you view your yourself in the context of your relationship with the RCVS. A positive force for good? If so, can you point me towards any examples of your achievements?[/quote]

Gently be it put and to repeat what I have written several times, I think my opinion is worth the square root of very little and as a consequence has little influence on grand concepts liike "A positive force for good?"

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]b) How you think the people at the RCVS view you? [/quote]

Don't know, but the next Pres has offered to meet my dog Bertie, the Border Terrier, at HQ when he's back from Oz or when he's in Office and he might be able to give me an idea. Should I report back?

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 16:30:29 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I've given up the will to live with JGW's ranting.[/quote]

You are by no means the only one. I shot myself five minutes ago. Sadly, I missed my head and just took my ear off.

[/quote]

There you (Van) Gogh!

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 14:18:57 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I've given up the will to live with JGW's ranting.[/quote]

You are by no means the only one. I shot myself five minutes ago. Sadly, I missed my head and just took my ear off.

Joking aside,

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"] I don't think constantly banging on about "RCVS" being out of touch , vexatious, etc motivates anyone and what does it achieve apart from spreading worry and making voting seem futile. [/quote]

Well, two things about this statement. First it's down to RCVS to provide the incentive and second the 84% who don't vote are not influenced by me. They can see the futility themselves, because they are intelligent.[/quote]

Well, two things about your statement, JGW,

Firstly, it's not down to the RCVS to provide you with an incentive. The RCVS is the regulator. Veterinary surgeons have the privilege of having some say over how they are regulated. If 84% don't see that as a benefit, perhaps the profession should cease to be self-regulating.

Secondly, nice way of abrogating your responsibility (the 84% are not influenced by me), but completely untrue. We all influence others. And some people, just by virtue of the fact that they are noisier or more vociferous than others, influence more people. You are posting in a widely-read forum, and you should take personal responsibility that your carping DOES influence.

JGW, I'd be interested to know:

a) How you view your yourself in the context of your relationship with the RCVS. A positive force for good? If so, can you point me towards any examples of your achievements?

b) How you think the people at the RCVS view you? Someone who motivates them to do better? Someone with good ideas? Someone who's a bit of a thorn in the side, but is listened to because they have some interesting stuff to say? Or someone who isn't worth listening to unless you're feeling suicidal anyway and just want another reason to pull the trigger?

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 14:14:23 GMT

Thanks.

Wynne

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

J G Wray — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 12:15:16 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I've given up the will to live with JGW's ranting[/quote]

RIP

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 11:54:15 GMT

First Rate Regulator.

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 11:53:18 GMT

What's FRR?

Wynne

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 11:16:50 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]Didn't you say that when he first started,[/quote]

Look at his career so far. He's part of those in the metropolitan mix. He's tasted influence at Cabinet level. RCVS is a stepping stone and five years will be up soon, with the RCVS reorganised and FRR in place. Then we'll start again with a new CEO and still no understanding of GVetP.

[/quote]

Interesting points! That said, if he does leave at the end of 5 years, he will hopefully leave behind an RCVS at least capable of understanding, rather than the previous 'situation' he was handed to make the best of.

(obviously mere speculation on my part, but I think he's done well so far!)

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 10:52:15 GMT

[quote user="Laurence Webb"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

I asked Roger Waters if he was a musician......

Trumps you all for the worst reasons.

[/quote]

David Gilmour did that one as well. Fortunately Roger is the forgiving type...

[/quote]I nearly missed that - nice one Laurence. But I don't think Roger ever forgave him. As Pink Floyd's greatest fan I say lets keep this part of the tread going. I've given up the will to live with JGW's ranting. Did you see that clever headline when Charlie Gilmour was arrested for swinging on the Cenotaph?: 'He has got an education'!

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

J G Wray — Thu, 02 Apr 2015 07:29:11 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]Didn't you say that when he first started,[/quote]

Close. I said I hoped he would address the needs of all his audiences. He has worked hardest on RCVS itself creating the FRR as a symbol. He's helped move on lay (public) involvement, which on balance I think is a good thing. He's helped peripheral interest groups in the veterinary worlld, including those suffering from health issues. He's just missed the main target so far. I am sure he knows this, but he's facing considerable difficulty consequent upon lack of a purpose around which to approach GVetP.

Re: Clarkson - It could never happen to a vet

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 01 Apr 2015 22:45:41 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

No argument there, but he won't be sticking around for long. I hope he instils a legacy culture in his remaining time, rather than just organisation and features.

[/quote]

Didn't you say that when he first started, Doctor?