Neutering 'feral' cats

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Wren — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 09:06:20 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

I retired from the group before that moo could ban me. what an egotistical harridan! and there are an awful of non vets on there form the original days, i was worried that clients would associate me with such a cynical and arrogant load of nonsense.

[/quote]

I love it! I find it hilarious. Not the actual Stupid Things The Owners Say, but the militant US RVNs (or VTs or whatever they call them), with their moral highgrounds. Most of the posting goes on overnight as mostly US-based so I often have a good chuckle over breakfast!

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 21:13:00 GMT

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Kate Richardson — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 19:47:04 GMT

There's no smiley sticking its tongue out!

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 18:11:35 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]I refrained from comparing the fecundity of the average tom-cat with your good self[/quote] Opportunities more like the neutered variety these days probably.

When I was young lad and had carnal desires my mother told me that every time I had unclean thoughts I should go out on my bike until they wore off. This is probably why I'm such a good cyclist. That I also grew up (relatively) well balanced is more of a surprise. Fortunately I'm still able to cycle.

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Anthony Todd — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 17:29:16 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]For once he actually has a valid point.[/quote]

Geez mate you give me such a hard time!

I refrained from comparing the fecundity of the average tom-cat with your good self, yet still I am condemned with your faint praise.....

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 16:15:28 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]

Bit harsh Martin! Mariette only answered the question!

[/quote]And I thought we were friends again! I don't think its harsh and I'm sure that Marriette is quite capable of defending herself. If you want me to be harsh: it is totally irrelevant. The chance of any of us seeing a badger chipped in the backside is rather vanishingly low and doesn't address Anthony's observation that it is not usually possible to read a chip in a cat in a trap cage. For once he actually has a valid point.

There you go I've managed to make sarcastic remarks about three people in one post!

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Kate Richardson — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 11:13:41 GMT

Bit harsh Martin! Mariette only answered the question!

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 09:38:54 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

"Can you read microchips through the metal of a crush cage?!" Antony Todd

Yes you can. I microchip the badgers I vaccinate, and I read the chips from the outside of the trap , with a normal cheap reader, while pushing them with their bum in the corner (I microchip them just above the tail to make reading easier). Works perfectly.

Mariette

[/quote]Given that all domestic pets in the UK are chipped between the shoulder blades this is not a useful piece of advice. There's a chance if we follow the continental method of chipping in the side of the neck.

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

mariette asselbergs — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 00:12:11 GMT

"Can you read microchips through the metal of a crush cage?!" Antony Todd

Mariette

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 23:49:51 GMT

I got banned from the 'daft things owners say to vets' Facebook group for arguing with the militant nurse that castrating males does not feature in population control.

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 17:20:18 GMT

Sorry to add to the thread drift, but in India the Animal Birth Control programmes (used for dogs as part of rabies prevention) only spay bitches and castrate young males; adult males are kept entire as it has been found to keep the territories stable. Neuter a male and all that happens is a new entire male comes in and possibly spreads new disease.

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 17:07:38 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]hat is actually the point of castrating feral tom cats? It won't do anything for the unwanted kitten problem, and it is not remotely in the cat's best interst.[/quote]So reducing the risk and transmission of FIV let alone injuries from fighting is not in the cat's interests? I don't know how you can say this of course it will reduce unwanted kittens I just don't expect it to eliminate the problem.

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Anthony Todd — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 17:04:40 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]nd...... thread drift alert..... what is actually the point of castrating feral tom cats? It won't do anything for the unwanted kitten problem, and it is not remotely in the cat's best interst.[/quote]

+1, but it's a losing battle

Ah, the old chestnut. TIME magazine published something about tom-cats libido; was it 50 ejaculations in 24hours?? and the territory was enormous.

Of course, castrated cats are just as territorial and fight too.

Still, as most members of the public can't distinguish between male and female, the chance of getting females spayed, if you discriminated between the sexes would be less.

Just do the females before they're in oestrus, [appropriately] FFS.

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Lizzie Booth — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 16:47:58 GMT

Yep she could have been scanned i'm sure. I think everyone will be a bit more aware from now on. She was scanned after being anaesthetised. In terms of cat friendly handling I am in the process of making some changes with the nurses. Unfortunately she was in isolation which isn't the most cat friendly place, just off kennels and next to the noisy tumble dryer!

Interesting that people have had similar issues. Most of the neuter we do are for people with colonies on their land/smallholding. I live on a little housing estate. Any thoughts on trapping in residential areas?

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Kate Richardson — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 16:34:59 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="eb6211"]So she had not been scanned for a chip. [/quote]

Why not?

What's the point of having a chip if nobody scans?

If all else failed she could have been scanned once sedated.

[/quote]

100% agree.

[quote user="eb6211"]Turns out she had been admitted the afternoon before as a feral cat after being caught in a cat trap. The nurses had been warned she could not be handled and had in fact bitten the lady who brought her in. So she had not been scanned for a chip. She had lost her collar and to be fair will hiss and spit when scared.[/quote]

Poor little thing must have been petrified. Maybe your nurses could benefit from some cat friendly handling tips? I find it hard to believe that after 12-24 hours in hosp that she was still so unhandleable that she couldn't be scanned though

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 16:24:31 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Less likely to fight/become infected with FIV if neutered.

Wynne

[/quote]

While still living feral life, Wynne? I disagree.

More likely to get beaten up by a bigger stronger cat though.

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 16:19:25 GMT

Less likely to fight/become infected with FIV if neutered.

Wynne

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 16:16:40 GMT

[quote user="eb6211"]So she had not been scanned for a chip. [/quote]

Why not?

What's the point of having a chip if nobody scans?

If all else failed she could have been scanned once sedated.

And...... thread drift alert..... what is actually the point of castrating feral tom cats? It won't do anything for the unwanted kitten problem, and it is not remotely in the cat's best interst.

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 14:19:36 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"]The cat looked a bit like a birman so she had assumed it was "too pretty to be a stray" and tried to pick it up out of the trap[/quote]I suspect we've all been there and even those cats that can be touched even stroked with care can be spooked suddenly and turn into the creature from hell. I keep trying to tell my nurses but they feel sorry for them. We once had to dismantle the entire stack of Shorline kennels to get a cat out that had managed to wedge itself behind in an impossibly narrow space, took half an afternoon!

But some of the nutty CP volunteers are as bad and try to handle them for vaccines and chipping and regret it with wall of death and savaged fingers. I learned the hard way that they get moved out of the trap into a crush cage before they are assessed. I admit sniggering occasionally when they 'try to be kind' and end up being bitten but not so happy when I'm the one who has to pick up the pieces, There is a pair of cat handling gloves in every room now.

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Anthony Todd — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 14:08:56 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"]I have dealt with plenty of stray cats and some truly feral ones.[/quote]

This situation has been going on for yonks. I think it was SNIP that introduced the ear-tipping [with no little opposition, you know, mutilation etc.] and it worked well [except the "tipping could vary from 1.5cm to 0.15cm which makes it sometimes a matter of opinion or guess!]

It seems that practising vets now should start to agitate for a protocol involving microchipping [mandatory??], ear tipping [mandatory, if not chipped] which would go a long way towards minimising the problem.

Can you read microchips through the metal of a crush cage?!

The other even more important thing is to educate or influence the charities to reduce the recommended age of neutering to, say, 4 months [which turns into 6 months anyway when owners get their act together!]

Finally, should it not be best practice to release a chipped or tipped cat back into the same environment so that the colony or population balance is not altered?

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Utlendigur — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:41:02 GMT

[quote user="Simon Neuhoff"]

We also do lots of CPL work and as such I have dealt with plenty of stray cats and some truly feral ones. However the single most aggressive CPL cat I have ever dealt was one brought in as a feral (and very much behaving like one!) and turned out to be both id chipped and speyed. So we learnt the hard way with that one!

[/quote]

We had the opposite situation when our local CPL were trapping a nearby feral colony. One of the nurses took a trap into the consult room to transfer the latest cat to a crush cage. Next minute there was a series of loud crashes, bit of screaming, some hissing and yowling and I opened the door to see a cat doing the wall of death round a wrecked consult room. The cat looked a bit like a birman so she had assumed it was "too pretty to be a stray" and tried to pick it up out of the trap - it was definitely feral. We'd actually had quite a few birman cross type ferals over the years so there must have been an escaped breeding tom at some point.

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:15:02 GMT

Update on my previous post: CP came in this morning with an un-neutered mature Tom cat caught in one of their traps on a feral site. He was obviously not feral and quite handleable. He was scanned and no chip found. An executive decision was made to castrate him regardless in his own best interests and I would defend this decision as any owner who does not castrate an outdoor cat that is allowed to roam is irresponsible anyway but quite what they could do if they were unhappy I'm not sure as it is impossible to prove ownership. He was FIV tested negative. What we'd have done if he'd been positive I'm not sure - that is a decision for another day if it happens.

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Simon Neuhoff — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 12:20:51 GMT

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 09:18:25 GMT

We do tons of work for the CP some days 3-4 trapped feral cats are brought in for neutering and subsequent release. They are usually from a well known colony and it is obvious if they are truly feral or not. I confess they don't all get scanned but those that are obviously well-kept and tame are vetted more carefully and scanned. If they are recognised as tame 'strays' (which your's technically was) then CP branch policy is not to do anything for a week to allow an owner to make contact.

It is a very difficult situation. We've got to balance the risk of not being able to re-capture cats of breeding potential and lose the opportunity to neuter them. If a tame cat is caught we would scan and make every attempt to contact the owner. Often the owner has abandoned or disowns the cat so if that is the case or it is not chipped it is a difficult decisions to put it back in case it really is a stray.

We actually got a surgery cat this way. He was obviously not feral when trapped but wasn't well socialised and was probably just a stray that had got in with a bad lot! We couldn't find an owner so he lived at the surgery until he died aged 20.

I can understand if you are rather miffed at the way this was handled but we and the CP are put in a difficult situation. I don't always agree with their policies but we trying to make the best of bad job and if a captured cat is with a colony and is acting very aggressively it is obvious how mistakes can be made. It only takes a few seconds to scan but when you're very busy with a production line of neutering it can get overlooked.

I will however learn a lesson and remember to scan every cat even it we have to wait until it is sedated before we can get near it.

Re: Neutering 'feral' cats

Noweia — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 23:11:52 GMT

Yes - when we did CP work we got lots of cats caught and handed in and they wanted them neutered, chipped CITE tested and vaccinated all that day, rarely did they hold them 5 or more days to see if they were owned. We always checked them for chips after we got a couple of pets through that the volunteers had missed (they were supposed to scan all of them before handing them in). One was a Ragdoll-looking cat that was brought in as 'feral', we managed to not do it for 7 days. I was never happy with cats being plucked off the streets and done then and there.

Problem is there is no set legislation about what to do with cats - with dogs there are holding periods etc but with cats you just have to make a 'reasonable' attempt to find the owner.