Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 10:24:26 GMT

I totally redesigned this surgery when I bought it 19 years ago. The former practice owner had run the practice from the basement, whilst living in a 4 bedroomed house above. I changed it to having the practice run from the former house, and turning the basement into a flat. I emplyed an architect to draw up plans for the necessary planning application,but he really wasn't much use for anything else.

I then emplyed a friend as the main building contractor - he is still a friend. He subcontracted anything like electrical work which his business couldn't do.

Wynne

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

Gerry Henry — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 11:47:20 GMT

The timing is all important; we got out guys to draw up a schedule so that no one got in anyone else's way; the only fly in the ointment was the ventilation guy who just turned up when it suited him, he had a chastening interview with the builder (large) and was good as gold thereafter. Its really just common sense, get the skeleton up, utilities in, ceiling on, clad walls, paint, floor, put units in, snagging, done - cue nervous breakdown :-)

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

Claudia Niehoegen — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 18:58:41 GMT

Gerry, we did use clients for fire alarm and kennel doors. Somehow we don't seem to have shopfitter clients. It was the project management we felt was most daunting, organizing who would be doing what when. As it was we had electricians not being able to work because the floor was being laid. As all the craft people had come after a 2 to 4 hour drive we had to make a lot of teas to pacify them!

We managed to remain friends with the developer who fitted our surgery out 18 years ago. No mean feat, they say a holiday can easily end a friendship, but employing a friend for 3 months tops that as a challenge!

The little book is a good idea, I'll start that.

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

Gerry Henry — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 18:23:51 GMT

[quote user="Claudia Niehoegen"]

We had to move premises last year because the council redevelopped the centre we are in. We decided to employ a company specializing in buildings for vets. It did not go well. Their architect told us he did not need to see our old surgery because he built surgeries for a living and was not interested in ours. He also ridiculed the fact that we had designed the clinic we happily practised in for 18 years. Unfortunately we still appointed the company although the architect no longer came. None of the local shopfitters and other crafts people even answered our inquiries for an estimate and we were getting nervous as there was a deadline. We did not think we could work as vets and be building works managers at the same time.

Finally we had our plans. Starting with a large empty shell it should not have been too difficult to follow them. But the builder boss marked the walls in the wrong places and the builders built them neither according to plan nor marked lines. Subsequently the waiting room extends too far back, the dental sink is half enclosed instead of freestanding, the diagnostic room is larger than planned, and the hub room (that we call prep room) is much smaller than we wanted. We also felt that we did not receive best advice and service from a "specialist" for vet. buildings. The fact that we need a dirty sink for mop water was overlooked. The wooden reception desk was neither serviceable nor did it have disabled access. The ceiling tiles look very nice but as they are smooth and hard any yapping sound bounces back sharply.

More than 5 months after the move we still have things to sort out but we are getting there. Many items are much lower spec than what we used to have. Eg the taps are so close to the sink wall that we cannot fill a kettle or dog bowl from them. Of course there are no mixer taps, apart from the one we stipulated, for scrubbing. But it's one of those where your left hand gets the hot water and the right hand the cold.

Summing up: I wish we had done the project planning ourselves. As it was, we still had to manage the craftspeople a lot and pay the absent guy who messed everyone around. Our time schedule was dictated by the council. We have since learned that during summer holidays all local builders are employed at school projects and it would be better to avoid that time.

Hope it hasn't been too much of a rant!

[/quote]

Surely after 18 years you have clients who can do all of the above? We used clients for everything, electrics, suspended ceiling, building, plumbing, painting etc etc fantastic job all round apart from the one outside company (ventilation engineers - snort) who were crap. Acquire a wee black book of good professionals you can rely on and stick to it.

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

david innes-wilkin — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 17:02:54 GMT

[quote user="Claudia Niehoegen"]Their architect told us he did not need to see our old surgery because he built surgeries for a living and was not interested in ours. He also ridiculed the fact that we had designed the clinic we happily practised in for 18 years. Unfortunately we still appointed the company although the architect no longer came.[/quote]

Claudia I am sorry to hear of your construction problems. If is was an "architect" they should be reported, but many design specialists are using technicians. (The word architect is protected under the same act as the word doctor ...).

One piece of advice for those who are reading your post: interview 3 designers.... send the fully detailed scheme out to 3 contractors.... have a building contract with a late finishing penalty clause in. the Joint Contracts Tribunal Minor Works Contract is our favourite, you can buy it yourselves from amazon.

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

david innes-wilkin — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:57:17 GMT

Ruth you are welcome to pm me here or my email which is architects@inneswilkin.co.uk

Today I am reading another post from a vet with lots of construction problems, but I dont know if they used a registered architect. !

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

Claudia Niehoegen — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:20:05 GMT

Hope it hasn't been too much of a rant!

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

Gerry Henry — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 11:20:46 GMT

The only person who knows what you want and how you work is you; design it yourself, get an architectural draftsman to do the drawings and advise on current legislation (much cheaper than an architect) and get on with it. We did a 2500sq ft conversion last year entirely without architect input and it is MUCH better than many architect designed premises I have worked in.

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 22:16:57 GMT

Lol....I didn't mean literally! Obv we have a corridor running through the practice ... There is no door straight from prep to reception. However, in the prep room there is a door from this corridor, 2 doors into consulting rooms and one into the gas store/mortuary (which itself has a door to the outside). I was just meaning that having lots of doors isn't always a bad thing as it helps the flow of traffic around the practice. However, every practice size and shape is different so there is never a 'one size fits all' solution. For example, our dog kennelling and isolation are downstairs but due to lack of scope for more internal walls our cat and exotic wards are upstairs. We'd rather do that than have them all in the same space downstairs. You have to work with what you've got....

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

ruths — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 21:51:38 GMT

thanks for your replies.

Gillian- why would you want reception attached to the room in which you anaesthetise animals?

or am I overthinking the prep room?

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:07:31 GMT

Of course it depends quite a lot on the shape of the ground you have available; a long narrow rectangle is going to be different from a square or an oval; but I don't see that corridors necessarily waste space. You have to have de facto corridors even in a totally open space, otherwise you can't move around. And, the fewer subdividing walls, the more animals can see each other, which is not good.

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:57:31 GMT

I guess it depends on the size of practice/number of staff. Lots of doors should mean you get get access to the room easily from wherever you are...from consulting, kennelling, reception etc without wasting space on corridors in a smaller practice. Ours is like that...but isn't particularly loud or chaotic because we only have 2 vets working at once. In a bigger, busier practice I guess your treatment room would be the hub, with the prep room being a quieter, separate area.

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:48:44 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]

I'm interested in your thoughts about the prep room being a big circulation space. having worked in places with prep rooms like that, I've found it really hard to anaesthetise some animals because of the clatter and the noise and the to and fro of people.

Lots of doors stress me out as they feel like lots of escape routes for animals that have jumped off a table -))

I realise I may be in the minority here, but I always think of a prep room to be a calm and quiet room where animals can be induced carefully and people come in and out with caution.

[/quote]

If you are in a minority, I'm in it with you. I quite agree.

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

ruths — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:42:14 GMT

Thanks for your post, David.

Lots of doors stress me out as they feel like lots of escape routes for animals that have jumped off a table -))

I realise I may be in the minority here, but I always think of a prep room to be a calm and quiet room where animals can be induced carefully and people come in and out with caution.

If the prep room is small- would that make a difference?

we have architect plans for the main walls; it's the work flow through element that I'm interested in.

Would you mind if I sent you a PM?

Ruth

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

david innes-wilkin — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 17:02:55 GMT

Putting my hand up here, to say I'm both interested and biased, because I am the architect who has met Arlo due to spotting this interesting site. The RIBA will always give out three registered chartered architects in reply to an enquiry. Usually the initial visit is free, and it gives an overview about whether you are on the right track. http://www.architecture.com/Explore/Home.aspx

We design a few veterinary premises every year all over the south and west. The prep rooms are best thought of as big circulation spaces, with LOTS of doors. By doing things that way we have got rid of corridors in some clients' initial designs. Every few square meters of space saved will reduce the cost by thousands of pounds.

Architects fees are not high compared with the total cost. They can also sometimes save money, and if you desire a full service, they can track your costs all the way from the first budget through to the final account when defects are signed off. A good set of plans gets you a good set of builders' tenders.

I am happy to give feedback on any issue relating to this..... for example, one large veterinary hospital was quite smelly until we designed the extension, but we added proper ventilation. Putting that right has corrected the work of the unqualified (cheaper) plans service that they had used before us. The client was happy to use a chartered practice with a holistic view of his premises.

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

ruths — Mon, 23 Feb 2015 18:20:24 GMT

interesting- there's a limited space and plans have been made laready but I think an expert eye might be very useful.

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 23 Feb 2015 17:10:55 GMT

[quote user="ruths"]Do you have any recommendations (or not) for people who can help with the design?[/quote]

What an incredibly serendipitous post.

I had lunch last Friday with an architect who specialises in veterinary practices! Very nice chap - I've even offered to help him spread the word about his business - hence the advert at the foot of the page (you might need to refresh the page to see it).

http://www.inneswilkin.co.uk/

He's done a lot of practices over the years, and it was fascinating talking to him about various aspects of practice design, including something which I think very few in the profession pay much attention to, but I suspect is actually very important.

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]get an architect. They are very good at their jobs and the benefits to 'space useage' and ergonomics will be worth it. [/quote]

Couldn't agree more. I might see if I can persuade him to come and join the discussion.

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 23 Feb 2015 16:34:21 GMT

I guess it depends what degree of building work you are having done. We've done it both ways:

- basic 2 story extension onto building...only basic input for plans (needed for planning and building regs) as we knew what we wanted.

-large scale full redesign of existing practice by an architect who had experience of health centres etc.....lots of walls moved and complete change to how the building functions. He did things that wouldn't have occurred to me and made excellent use of fairly limited space.

My advice would be...unless your ideas are small and rigid, get an architect. They are very good at their jobs and the benefits to 'space useage' and ergonomics will be worth it. When you are spending a lot of money, it is worth spending a bit more to get it right.

As I said, we have done quite a bit of building work...feel free to ask any questions you want!

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 23 Feb 2015 08:57:46 GMT

I extended mine many years ago and looked into employing a designer/architect but all they were going to do was put my ideas onto a plan and charge me for it! So I made my own rough plan, discussed the practical aspects of it with a good builder who was capable of preparing a working plan, submitted it for approval from council/building regs, fine tuned it and got on with it.

Re: Have any of you built an extension to your practice?

Mark Rowland — Sun, 22 Feb 2015 22:17:59 GMT

Try professional practice services. They are finance guys but seem to have fingers in lots of pies

My first impression is that architects will be bloody expensive. I would go with what you think you need and draw up a few plans of your own.

My practice was built as an amalgam of places where I had worked

Goodluck