Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Bob Russell — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 12:40:45 GMT

More likely to get Labour backed up by the SNP. Everyone else sidelined.

How scary is that?

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 23:17:08 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Evelyn I simply CAN'T believe you would ever support Labour!

I think if I lived somewhere the Conservatives were likely to get in, then I'd probably vote for them (tactically) in order to keep Labour out. As it is, I'll vote UKIP.

[/quote]

That's the point I'm trying to make. Vote UKIP and you might let Labour in.

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 16:43:25 GMT

Evelyn I simply CAN'T believe you would ever support Labour!

I think if I lived somewhere the Conservatives were likely to get in, then I'd probably vote for them (tactically) in order to keep Labour out. As it is, I'll vote UKIP.

Wynne

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 16:01:31 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Banning it is part of UKIPs manifesto, so it's another reason to vote for them.[/quote]

I can think of a lot more reasons NOT to vote for them...

[/quote]

The only good reason is that you would probably let the Labour party in by splitting the vote.

Sorry, Wynne, but if it's a choice between banning unstunned slaughter and saving the country from disaster, I'll take saving the country.

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 09:13:21 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Banning it is part of UKIPs manifesto, so it's another reason to vote for them.[/quote]

I can think of a lot more reasons NOT to vote for them...

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 09:01:57 GMT

Denmark has outlawed non-stun slaughter. Banning it is part of UKIPs manifesto, so it's another reason to vote for them. Non-stun slaughter is only legal in this country if it's to be consumed by religious minorities, yet the law is being flouted when it's sold to the unsuspecting general public. I'm not prepared to quietly endure something I believe to be morally wrong, without doing my utmost best to get the law altered. Don't be defeatist.

Wynne.

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

tess — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 21:23:53 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

The government have refused to ban non-stun slaughter. Next May, we'll have a chance of hitting back in a way that will really hurt them - by taking away their jobs and generous expense accounts.

Wynne

[/quote]

They'll never ban it, as it will be seen as religious discrimination. The welfare is of secondary importance to them.

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 18:37:34 GMT

I googled non-stun slaughter, and got what has been printed in the farming Press. Sickening.

Wynne

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Louise6732 — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 18:26:47 GMT

Hi Wynne, I wondered how the debate went, is there somewhere you can read about it? Louise

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 18:15:23 GMT

The government have refused to ban non-stun slaughter. Next May, we'll have a chance of hitting back in a way that will really hurt them - by taking away their jobs and generous expense accounts.

Wynne

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 09:16:25 GMT

Does anyone know how yesterday's debate went?

Wynne

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 16 Feb 2015 11:11:13 GMT

Hope you've all written to your MPs. The more people who write, the more they'll be scared of losing their jobs in May - unless they vote in favour of the ban.

Wynne

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 13 Feb 2015 18:12:08 GMT

Please lobby your MP before 23rd Feb

Wynne

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 06 Feb 2015 10:20:30 GMT

Google Halal slaughter. There's another petition,this time organised by change.org which opposes halal slaughter. Hopefully 2 100,000 petitions will have twice the impact of 1 on politicians.

Wynne

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 10:45:01 GMT

Bob I agree 100%

Wynne

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Bob Russell — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 10:26:43 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

In other words, buying freedom foods is merely a sop to my own conscience. How can we (as a profession) make a real difference?

Wynne

[/quote]

Not a sop but there are limitations. As a profession we have to be on-site and care! Being an OV, doing meat work carries very major responsibilities both for animal welfare and food safety. Treat it just as a job and you are likely to let animals down!

I consider it was a good thing when OV's tended to be drawn from general practices.

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 09:48:20 GMT

In other words, buying freedom foods is merely a sop to my own conscience. How can we (as a profession) make a real difference?

Wynne

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Bob Russell — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 09:36:21 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Bob I would hope that by buying outdoor reared pork (with RSPCA freedom food endorsement) I will be ensuring the pigs were humanely treated throughout their lives.

Wynne

[/quote]

Don't kid yourself about Freedom Foods. A good idea, a lot of box ticking and a bit better monitoring. In the bigger abattoirs it is the supermarket inspection that brings out best practice.

It may well be that OV hours have been cut under pressure from management but I observed the start of the box ticking national supplier of OV's. Was not impressed and was glad to get out!

It seems to be the case that the OV providers are more interested in getting the paperwork right than having a vet willing to stand up to difficult business owners.

The OV is still in charge of welfare monitoring and must be held to account. If he or she has been unable to work enough hours to ensure good welfare practices then this is a defence but must lead to change.

Strange how it works, a vet provides sub-optimal out of hours care to a pet and it goes to the DC but an OV failing to monitor welfare for large numbers of farm animals results in silence!

One of my jobs was to monitor welfare of end of lay hens at slaughter. There were so many traumatic limb fractures that I was ready to resign within a couple of weeks. Thankfully this message was taken on board and nutrition and handling were promptly improved as was the welfare of the birds.

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 09:15:24 GMT

Bob I would hope that by buying outdoor reared pork (with RSPCA freedom food endorsement) I will be ensuring the pigs were humanely treated throughout their lives.

Wynne

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 09:11:10 GMT

OK I accept that the ill-treatment here goes way beyond not stunning, and I agree that all slaughterhouses with poor welfare standards should be closed on 1st offence, slaughtermen jailed,and management not only jailed (make failure to ensure good welfare a criminal offence) but also fined tens of millions - enough to ensure total bankruptcy.

Wynne

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 09:10:58 GMT

Wynne

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Bob Russell — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 09:10:46 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Bob If it's pork, then it definitely won't have been slaughtered by halal/kosher methods.

Wynne

[/quote]

At what stage did I suggest pork was going to be slaughtered by Halal/Kosher methods?

You mentioned outdoor reared pork as being slaughtered more humanely than 'factory farmed'. Previous filming has shown abuse by slaughtermen of pigs at slaughter.

The discussion is about the whole process of slaughter, on this occasion it was Halal and sheep.

As meat purchasers we have a right to expect animals to be treated in a humane manner.

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Wren — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 08:52:16 GMT

I have spent some time in this slaughterhouse under previous management, and when it carried out conventional (not religious) slaughter. At that time both veterinary provision and staff attitudes and standards were much better than described. Whilst it was perhaps not the best slaughterhouse I have visited, in terms of standards, it certainly ticked all the required boxes and was far from the worst either.

I am pretty sure their OVs are provided by a national company specialising in abattoir work and widely recruiting from southern europe (is that a subtle enough description?). Whilst my dealings with the management of the company have not been wholly favourable I always found their OVs to be very 'by the book'. Rather too much so on some occasions for some of our farmers! In the era I was doing OV work in that area I do know they had problems covering that plant however - staff were often sent from our plant at short notice to cover absences there so there wasn't consistent staff continuity. This, of course, may be very different now.

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 18:56:56 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Bob If it's pork, then it definitely won't have been slaughtered by halal/kosher methods.

Wynne

[/quote]

Doesn't mean it will have been slaughtered humanely.

Do you remember last time we had fits of outrage on this forum over slaughtermen flimed grossly maltreating animals? That was a conventional slaughterhouse and the victims were pigs. We had a petition about it, remember?

A b. awful slaughterhouse that ought to be closed down is a b. awful slaughterhouse that ought to be closed down, whatever type it is, and a twll dyn is a twll dyn, whatever religion he professes.

Re: Undercover filming at yet another slaughterhouse!

Thomas Johnson — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 18:52:20 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Bob If it's pork, then it definitely won't have been slaughtered by halal/kosher methods.

[/quote]

I think the point Bob is making is that the stun/non-stun debate is a red herring in this particular case, the sort of animal abuse that has occurred in this abattoir is unrelated to the method of slaughter. It appears to be due to bad behaviour by individuals and poor supervision.