First Milk payment delay

Re: First Milk payment delay

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 11:51:14 GMT

PS I've now given you 5 golds. You can't say that when I apologise, I don't do so handsomely.

Wynne

Re: First Milk payment delay

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 11:49:28 GMT

Anthony In view of what Micheal has posted - sorry for red-starring.

Wynne

Re: First Milk payment delay

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 11:47:34 GMT

Micheal We posted the same time. In that case I'll apologise. I've Caesared the early BBXs out of Frisian cows - and felt the entire procedure highly unethical.

Wynne

Re: First Milk payment delay

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 11:46:38 GMT

Ah, a red star. Confirms my farm knowledge really has now vacated my noggin since graduating.

Re: First Milk payment delay

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 11:45:24 GMT

Calving a BBX out of a dairy cow can be nightmareish. Calving one out of a Hereford x suckler - even worse.

Wynne

Re: First Milk payment delay

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 11:42:50 GMT

These are BB born from dairy cows. None are caesarians - they are generally pretty easy calving. Even on the pedigree side things have moved on a long way. Electives ceasers are a thing of the past on the vast majority of farms.

Re: First Milk payment delay

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 11:42:04 GMT

Read the post more carefully Wynne, they were Blue crosses. Now my farm knowledge is weak but I think Belgian Blue bulls are used on dairy cattle to produce calves with a bit more meat on them that can then be sold to be store cattle?

Heavier weight at sale means more money per calf, is your way of thinking not 'give a higher value to animals so their welfare is better'?

Re: First Milk payment delay

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 10:49:11 GMT

PS to above. Unless BBs have altered dramatically in the last 20 years (since I've been out of mixed practice), then they're monstrosities. Yet another example of pushing production in order to produce unrealistically cheap food - and sacrificing animal welfare. How many of tese BBs are Caesarian births? We rightly object to certain breeds of dogs which are unable to whelp naturally, yet accept deliberate foetal oversize in cattle. Why?

Wynne

Re: First Milk payment delay

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 10:39:32 GMT

I know it's unlikely to happen,but it would mean such a massive improvement in animal welfare if it did. No wonder I'm so nostalgic about times past.

Wynne

Re: First Milk payment delay

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 10:21:23 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]Micheal. The smaller herds aren't doing things the way they were doing 50 years ago. They're trying to do so, but haven't got the money. There's a huge difference. 30p/l is still far far too low. To restore prices to the same real level as 50 years ago, the farm gate price would be 80p/l . If prices got back to that level, then we'd see a real improvement in welfare.[/quote]

I'm sure the guys producing a million litres per year would love an extra half a million pounds per year, but it's never going to happen. Not unless the dairy bubble bursts completely and half the world industry is lost. Milk would have to become a rare, luxury product.

It's the way I look at milk price - average herd of 120 cows, producing just over 8,000 litre average produces a million litres. Each penny on the milk price makes a £10,000 difference to their bottom line.

A sustained milk price of 40ppl would allow a lot of farms to thrive and re-invest. It might also give the cows on some of the poorer farms some value and allow them to get out of the industry. My view is a lot of the smaller, less good, farms are sort of stuck dairying.

This week at the local auction mart 6 week old BBx calves are selling for £400. A 2 year old, newly calved dairy heifer was £1000 (£1600 6 months ago).

Re: First Milk payment delay

Thomas Johnson — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 09:21:21 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Sammy82. I wouldn't worry in the slightest about TB. APHA (or whatever they now call themselves) have said that sewage sludge is safe to spread on agricultural land, because people and animals have different strains of TB

[/quote]

The majority of human cases are M. tuberculosis, passed directly from human to human, and it isn't passed easily to cattle. The majority of cattle cases are M. bovis, it can pass easily to humans, but is rare in humans because it is killed by pasteurisation.

Re: First Milk payment delay

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 08:49:22 GMT

Wynne

Re: First Milk payment delay

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 08:41:12 GMT

Micheal. The smaller herds aren't doing things the way they were doing 50 years ago. They're trying to do so, but haven't got the money. There's a huge difference. 30p/l is still far far too low. To restore prices to the same real level as 50 years ago, the farm gate price would be 80p/l . If prices got back to that level, then we'd see a real improvement in welfare.

Wynne

Re: First Milk payment delay

Sammy82 — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 00:45:21 GMT

I grew up on raw full fat milk, directly from the farm near my parents house in Germany. Raw milk is just a world away from anything you can buy in the shops. It took me years to stop shaking milk containers, to distribute the cream before pouring, after I had moved out. Farmers have to put up a sign to instruct people to boil the milk before consumption. Nobody does as boiled milk tastes awful. I don't think the consumption of raw milk would ever be possible or wise in Britain as long as TB is endemic. As long as the link between Johnes and Crohns isn't ruled out this is a worry too, in Germany as well as here. It is sad to see milk being sold so cheaply, and the farmers seeing even less of that. Even our corner shop sells 4 pints for a pound- they probably have to if they want to sell any at all as a huge Asda is just half a mile away.

Re: First Milk payment delay

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 00:06:19 GMT

[quote user="karen jones"] I would buy milk from local producer if I could like buying local meat etc.[/quote]

Me too.

Then I might be able to get real milk instead of homogenised.

Re: First Milk payment delay

Clive Ansell — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 22:22:55 GMT

[quote user="karen jones"]

I find it depressing when i drive passed all the farms in this area that used to milk.

[/quote]

I recently did a Sunday cycle ride around one of the milk tanker collection routes my Father used to drive in the 80's. Of 14 farms that once produced milk, none of them are now in production.

I wonder if the chairman of First Milk Sir Jim Paice, also conservative MP for East Cambridgeshire, will have to wait long for his £125,000 pa, (For 1 day a week) salary and if he does will it cause as much hardship as it will to many small farmers.

Re: First Milk payment delay

karen jones — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 20:51:03 GMT

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/73628

dont know if this will have any effect but all over facebook. I would buy milk from local producer if I could like buying local meat etc. Farming practice is under enough pressure without farmers not being paid. i find it depressing when i drive passed all the farms in this area that used to milk.

Re: First Milk payment delay

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 19:31:33 GMT

I noticed zero improvement in cattle welfare when the milk price was 30 odd pence.

Re: First Milk payment delay

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 18:09:22 GMT

Milk prices are too low.

Wynne

Re: First Milk payment delay

Thomas Johnson — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 17:54:56 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

A prosperous farmer doesn't guarantee high welfare standards - a cash-strapped one certainly does guarantee poor standards, and is the reason I not only think farm gate prices need to be considerably increased, but am totally disgusted with First Milk

[/quote]

First Milk have said they will go bankrupt if they have to make this payment now, and they are a co-operative owned by the farmers who supply them...

Re: First Milk payment delay

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 17:47:46 GMT

Wynne

Re: First Milk payment delay

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 17:32:41 GMT

But what if the smaller ones had the money available 50 years ago? The reason smaller herds are less well managed is the money for good management simply isn't there.

Wynne

Re: First Milk payment delay

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 17:12:10 GMT

Generally as herds get bigger they are better managed. The worst farms I see are the small, old fashioned ones doing things like they did 50 years ago.

What we do know is margin (pence per litre) has little bearing on how many cows you have or how much milk you produce.

If I was a cow I'd rather live on a bigger well managed herd.

Re: First Milk payment delay

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 16:39:19 GMT

Farm gate prices were 4 or 5 x higher in real terms 50 years ago. That meant animalwelfare was also higher. Conditions in some of these zero-grazing mega dairies absolutely appal me. Just one of the ways in which I think things were better back then.

Wynne

Re: First Milk payment delay

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 12 Jan 2015 16:29:55 GMT

This is bigger than the supermarkets. We are supposedly competing on a world market and world milk prices have fallen. China have reduced their buying and Russia banned our milk. Ireland, much of Europe and New Zealand pushing numbers and production for the end of milk quota.

UK production up over 5% on last year. Farmers are increasing production and upping numbers, but they don't seem to have asked their buyers if they want the milk that is produced.

The ironic thing (as we try and blame the supermarkets) the farmers getting the best price in the country are Tesco farmers on a contract with a guaranteed premium over the cost of production. It's actually costing Tesco's millions of pounds compared to buying the same milk at current market prices.

I do agree - the situation is scandalous. We just need to blame the correct people!