Certificate dilemmas!

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Becky Tee — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 16:44:19 GMT

Sorry should have said, that offer applies equally to Anon and to Fran.

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Becky Tee — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 16:42:42 GMT

Hi I've just come across this post, sorry to be late. I am very happy to have a chat/email with you from the Liverpool University point of view regarding future options, synoptic examinations etc so please feel free to make contact.

Becky Tee

Co-ordinator of Veterinary Postgraduate Education

University of Liverpool

beckytee@liv.ac.uk

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:50:42 GMT

I just received my CertAVP after a few emails requesting it and a few phone calls. Education dept. at RCVS seems always quite busy. And I'm looking at programming my next few years. I.e. possibly looking at convert my CertAVP to a CertSAM or? maybe start a different designated using my A and B modules.

I wonder if anyone knows about a CPD regarding these dilemmas, it would be helpful.

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

David Mills — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 14:41:16 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Where did you read that limit?[/quote]

I was told this after I'd completed mine 18m ago, from the education dept at RCVS, as I was embarking on a second Cert and was checking I didn't need to repeat the A and B.

It may well have changed now though (which I think is sensible). Probably best to clarify with them, though.

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 14:12:32 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]No. You can use the A and B mods for up to 2 more certificates.[/quote]

Where did you read that limit? I understood you could use them as many times as you wanted in the space of 10 year enrolement. Obviously for some areas you need to hold a specific B module, so if I wanted to do small animal cardiology I'd have to do the small animal B.

From RCVS:

Acquiring additional Certificates

74. Candidates who have achieved the CertAVP, and who then want to work towards a designated subject/species title will need to take any additional modules required for the subject/species area, and apply to RCVS for synoptic assessment. Similarly, candidates who have achieved a CertAVP with one designated title, and who wish to take further modules that would entitle them to a second or further designation will need to take at least one further module and apply for a further synoptic assessment for the new subject/species area concerned.

75. If successful at the synoptic assessment, candidates will be able to use the appropriate postnominals to indicate their qualification, for example, CertAVP[Derm;SAP;Anaesth).

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/document-library/rules-for-administration-of-the-modular-system/

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

David Mills — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 13:07:20 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"] Is that right?[/quote]

No. You can use the A and B mods for up to 2 more certificates.

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Kate Dawes — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 11:43:34 GMT

Hi, I can't comment on the BSAVA certificates, but I am in the process of doing a cert AVP and have had two children since starting it!

I feel like I left it a bit late to consider a certificate (partly because I didn't want to do the old-style RCVS one), I enrolled in 2009 when I was 11 years qualified and completed one module before having my daughter and taking 11mths off work. I did the B module and one C module whilst working part time and am now about to return to work (part-time) after having my second child, and will (hopefully) complete the certificate within the next year or two. It certainly can be done and I wouldn't put off starting a certificate on the basis that you might want to have a baby in the next few years. It does sound like there is some flexibility in the BSAVA cert, though you have longer (10 years) to complete a cert AVP. I have done two modules with RVC where I studied at my own pace but did struggle a bit with motivation and took a while to complete, and one with Liverpool which was much harder work but for a shorter period (supported study). I don't want to put you off a BSAVA cert at all, but if you're not 100% sure what the future holds it may be worth considering a cert AVP instead, then if you don't complete it you would still have some completed modules to show for it? I'm not sure what the structure of the BSAVA certs is as to whether this would be true for them as well.

You're right that being a mum is hard work and it's unlikely you would be able to or want to do much if any studying whilst on maternity leave. There are also some issues with trying to do a certificate whilst working part-time - obviously I'm not seeing the number of cases that I was before and it is harder to follow them up myself, but I managed to get enough good cases for my first C module (SAM). In some ways I found I have more energy for studying whilst working part-time - on the days I was at home I found I was ready to use my brain for a few hours in the evening, whereas when I was working all day I was mentally exhausted by the evening. That may well change now I have two children though...! Taking up to a year off maternity leave also has an impact as I know it will take me a while to get back in the swing of doing the basics before I'm ready to consider studying again.

So I would go for it and have faith that things will work out somehow if you do have children.

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 09:25:08 GMT

What is slightly frustrating is that once completed, as I understand, you cannot add on to it without going through A&B modules again. For example, I'm hopefully going to end up with a CertAVP(SAM) at the end of all this. If I then wanted to go for ECC as well, and become CertAVP (SAM)(ECC) [or however it would come out], I can't just do the C modules, but would have to do A & B again. Is that right?

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 00:44:50 GMT

[quote user="Gareth C."]Just don't expect having a cert to solve all your career concerns. When you get it there will be an element of what now.... [/quote]

That is very true. Signed up for a diploma after completing my cert modules whilst waiting for my synoptic exam. It's sort of addictive- I've even told to keep my CertAVP open in case I decide to add more to it in the next 6 years I have left to recycle my A&B modules.......

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Gareth C. — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 20:06:48 GMT

I did an espvs one and one of the delegates started pregnant and the baby came (with granny) to thevexam. It can be done. Just don't expect having a cert to solve all your career concerns. When you get it there will be an element of what now.... I would start but be in no rush to finish it.

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

An On MRCVS — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 15:28:43 GMT

Thank you

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Michelle Lambert — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 08:45:26 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]

Ok, no worries! Do you happen to know what time the formal teaching days usually run from - until? Manchester in particular is quite far for me, so again I need to weigh up whether I need to factor in accommodation etc or whether it will be feasible for me to travel up and back in a day? ie if it doesn't start until 10am, then getting there in a morning may be doable, but if the courses start at 9am then I may have to come up the night before.

Many thanks!! (sorry for all the questions...)

[/quote]

Morning! Courses start at 10am and end at 6pm. Many thanks

Shell

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

An On MRCVS — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:39:27 GMT

Many thanks!! (sorry for all the questions...)

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Michelle Lambert — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 16:36:54 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]

Any idea as to whether those weekdays are equally used, or do most teaching days tend to fall on a Tuesday for example? I guess it's variable depending on lecturer availability etc, but it will be useful in my negotiations to know roughly what proportion of the teaching days will end up falling on my day off!

[/quote]

Hi, It varies year to year depending on venue availibility and speaker availability so there is no set pattern im afraid.

Best wishes

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

An On MRCVS — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 16:31:43 GMT

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Michelle Lambert — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 16:20:56 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]

Does anyone know what days of the week the taught courses for the BSAVA medicine certificate are held on? I get time off during the week as part of my normal rota, so may need to factor this into some of my negotiations.

[/quote]

The taught courses for the Medicine Certificate are held on a weekday (Either Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday)

thanks Shell

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

An On MRCVS — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 15:50:49 GMT

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Carolyn — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 17:34:54 GMT

Nothing wrong with being a Nottingham graduate....

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 15:03:04 GMT

I'm doing mine as a full course participant with Liverpool, A & B modules were around £600, each C module is about £900 I think.

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 14:00:45 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

Wowsers the price has gone up! When I did mine it came in at little under £2k.

[/quote]

Yes - I registered in 2010 and that was the cost I got too, but then we didn't know how much the synoptic exam would cost - because they didn't exist!

What seems to have happened is all the prices have crept up a bit, but the old A module was 15 points with the B clinical skills modules worth 5 - so you now need an extra C module at cicrca £500, but the A&B are worth less but cost a little more. Now we have the Synoptic exams RCVS want £801 and some universities slightly less. That's a lot of money for a 45 minute exam.....

That adds £1300 onto your estimate straight away!

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

David Mills — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 13:00:58 GMT

Wowsers the price has gone up! When I did mine it came in at little under £2k.

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 11:55:08 GMT

Another who thought David was seriously underestimating costs.

Wynne

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 08:56:05 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

David - I agree with most of what you say, but I think your cost estimate is way off. By the time you've done A, B and now 4 C modules and paid for a synoptic exam - my estimates come to £3750 ish - and that is assessment only!

[/quote]

That's about what mine is going to cost through Liverpool.

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 07 Jan 2015 09:47:38 GMT

Re: Certificate dilemmas!

David Mills — Wed, 07 Jan 2015 01:56:36 GMT

To the OP.

As others have said, I've heard nothing but positive things about the BSAVA Certs.

But.

They are new. Their level is untested and uncorroborated, certainly against the traditional RCVS certs. It's a bit like being a Nottingham grad.

They are expensive. Now, part/most of this is because they essentially include your CPD for the duration. But don't forget to factor i travel +/- accommodation for the CPD days. By contrast, you can do an RCVS one for around £1500-2000 (with significant reductions on any CPD courses during it).

They are very structured. Now, this may suit you, and it sounds like you are very self-aware, so you're in the best position to decide. However, the CertAVP can also be structured (Liverpool) or not (e.g. RVC) - personally I preferred not having arduous deadlines to meet, and working in fits and starts. I felt doing a certificate where I had to meet monthly deadlines would actually be more stressful (and less conducive to effective learning).

They are general. Some of which may not be relevant to your daily practice.