Please be gentle...........

Re: Please be gentle...........

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 10:03:35 GMT

PS I had a feeling fromthe begining that a third party was manipulating things. Hopefully,your successor will have an easier time, as the employer will have learnt from experience .

Wynne

Re: Please be gentle...........

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 10:01:38 GMT

Having heard this update, I tooam now sympathising with both you and your boss.

Wynne

Re: Please be gentle...........

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 09:06:45 GMT

I agree... Being a vet and an employer does not automatically make you a good manager. Unfortunately we all learn from our mistakes - no? This story just serves as a reminder, that all sectors of the workplace need support. It sounds like this employer will not only have a dissatisfied and 'work to rule' workforce, but will also be down a vet and therefore may have to work long hours themselves. The problem may very well be of their own making, and anon can't be blamed for wanting out, but at least they can walk away!

I am fortunate to have a husband and practice manager that help me weather the storms, but staffing issues really get to me, and I can be guilty of speaking in haste and repenting at leisure. Although 11 years older and slightly wiser, I have learned a lot of lessons! As I say, I feel some sympathy with this employer for the mess they've gotten themselves into.

Re: Please be gentle...........

Jo Dyer — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 08:28:00 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Stuff like this tends to go over your head as an employee, but can be extremely stressful as an employer. It sounds like the boss got well and truly set up by the nurses. They have their own agenda, and probably don't give two hoots who they harm to get their way.[/quote]

Yes, it sounds as if something like that is happening. However, it is a symptom that the management and leadership of the practice are not where they should be. I find there is always someone, and usually the least suitable person, who will try to fill the 'leadership vacuum' if given half a chance. It may be that the boss needs training in these functions, because it doesn't come naturally to everyone and trying to run a practice and be a vet at the same time is incredibly stressful.

Unfortunately, unless the boss gets experienced and impartial help with this, it won't get any better; so a decision to move on to a better-managed practice is a good one I think.

Re: Please be gentle...........

Robin Grimmer — Sat, 13 Dec 2014 23:16:14 GMT

So are you leaving or not?

Re: Please be gentle...........

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 13 Dec 2014 23:05:12 GMT

I can absolutely understand your decision and you have to put yourself first.

but

I have a lot of sympathy with your boss.

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]I have also found out there is a ring-leader, the head nurse, that she wants the Ooh to stop. There are other areas of nurse ' disruption' going on. Refusing to do certain shifts, types of work, fighting over Christmas rotas. Things that have nothing to do with me. I suspect one of the other vets in also involved on the sidelines. I think there is a general push to stop the out of hours[/quote]

Stuff like this tends to go over your head as an employee, but can be extremely stressful as an employer. It sounds like the boss got well and truly set up by the nurses. They have their own agenda, and probably don't give two hoots who they harm to get their way.

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]The crux of the matter being, that if nurses do not trust or feel confident working with me, I can have no faith in them.[/quote]

You are also putting too much importance on the feelings/opinions of the nurses. Give it 6 months and they'll be slagging off someone else.

Re: Please be gentle...........

Liz w — Sat, 13 Dec 2014 21:20:13 GMT

Well done. Sounds like you've managed to take control of the situation.

Re: Please be gentle...........

An On MRCVS — Sat, 13 Dec 2014 21:12:48 GMT

Hi again. Just to update you and thanks again for the excellent points. Here is what happened. I thought about the practice, job and boss's outburst for a week. Then I resigned.

The crux of the matter being, that if nurses do not trust or feel confident working with me, I can have no faith in them.

The boss claimed he was horrified to lose me, that he had just had this list of complaints thrust under his nose just before he had to bring them up with me. He asked me not to leave. He says he is more than happy with my work. I have only temporarily withdrawn my notice. On the basis that the will never have an outburst of any description again. That these unqualified nurses will receive guidance on their responsibilities. That we will meet intermittently to review.

I have a very low view of him now.

I have also found out there is a ring-leader, the head nurse, that she wants the Ooh to stop. There are other areas of nurse ' disruption' going on. Refusing to do certain shifts, types of work, fighting over Christmas rotas. Things that have nothing to do with me. I suspect one of the other vets in also involved on the sidelines. I think there is a general push to stop the out of hours

I know I will not stay. Because of this background I have to refer anything remotely difficult and I have withdrawn from any social interaction. There is no point. Life is too short to spend any time on these people. They are not the type of people I want to work with.

I will find work closer to home. Allowing more time with my family.

So, be good. Enjoy Christmas and thanks again!!

Re: Please be gentle...........

An On MRCVS — Sat, 13 Dec 2014 21:12:39 GMT

Hi again. Just to update you and thanks again for the excellent points. Here is what happened. I thought about the practice, job and boss's outburst for a week. Then I resigned.

The crux of the matter being, that if nurses do not trust or feel confident working with me, I can have no faith in them.

I have a very low view of him now.

I will find work closer to home. Allowing more time with my family.

So, be good. Enjoy Christmas and thanks again!!

Re: Please be gentle...........

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 12 Dec 2014 23:14:20 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

And look what happens in Lieutenant Hornblower.

[/quote]

Did the practice principal fall down the stairs, or was he pushed? (excellent book.)

Re: Please be gentle...........

Jill Butterworth — Fri, 12 Dec 2014 17:51:23 GMT

I hope you are feeling better and the dust has settled. It sounds like you had a rude awakening to the politics of having a regular job and a dodgy stressed boss. As a locum you never get affected/involved unless there's a real issue. Your boss loved you when he was overworked and you were the saviour, now familiarity breed contempt. Don't let it get you down. Rise above it and fake it til you make it. Smile and act like nothing happened while you figure out what to do. I would counsel against fighting: 'Make your point without making an enemy' (Churchill). The 7 Habits of Highly Effective people by Steven Covey is an enlightening read.

Re: Please be gentle...........

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 09:11:31 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

I recall "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach." but it still happens!

[/quote]

Interestingly enough, I've always preferred the opposite version:

"Those who can, teach - those who can't, do"

(both my parents were qualified teachers, a far cry from 'stand in front of the room and talk' that some professions seem to favor )

Re: Please be gentle...........

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 09:03:05 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

For reasons that I have never understood staff who have been "taught" seem to believe that, if anyone, including the boss ,who has been tubing cats or taking X-rays for yonks, does things differently he or she is wrong.

[/quote]

I suspect it's how they are taught that's the problem, and I wonder if it's more likely to happen with veterinary nurses who may have been taught in a fairly rigid manner how to do things, probably partly because of the way they are examined, compared to vets who will have seen practice in a number of different practices and seen different ways of doing things.

Re: Please be gentle...........

Anthony Todd — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 00:00:12 GMT

The same applies to "we were told"!

I recall "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach." but it still happens!

Re: Please be gentle...........

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 23:27:01 GMT

[quote user="alex gough"]

I am reading the Aubrey/Maturin Master and Commander Series at the moment ( know this should be on another thread) and Jack Aubrey (the captain) says - It would be easy to pull up an officer in public in order to get cheap popularity. Easy, and in the long run, completely disastrous.

[/quote]

And look what happens in Lieutenant Hornblower.

Re: Please be gentle...........

Alex Gough — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 22:38:13 GMT

Re: Please be gentle...........

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 16:26:01 GMT

Francisco. I'd say most of us are on the OPs side.

Admittedly, we've only heard one side of the story, but taking the individual criticisms:

1) The OP gave up trying to insert an IV canula, and put the patient on oxygen. Absolutely correct decision with a dyspnoeic animal.

2) She's told her operating times are too long. Much better than slipping ligatures.

3) She's told she's hesitatant about making decisions. Again quite right. Some cases can require judgement. It's better to think and get it right, rather than just inject the first (or most obvious) thing, and get it wrong.

4) She's told that her instructions are'nt clear. I'm being strictly fair,when I say this is the first criticism that seems even remotely justified to me. We were none of us there, so maybe the OP overestimated the background knowledge of a nursing auxiliary who hasn't even started her formal training. Maybe she was perfectly clear, but somone was determined to make trouble, so added this "wooly" criticism in for good measure. We don't know,but the public criticism was most unethical.

Wynne

Re: Please be gentle...........

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 15:23:27 GMT

If I had the faintset idea how to fly a plane, I might agree with Glen and Arlo. As it is, I haven't a clue what on earth they're talking about, so I won't comment.

Wynne

Re: Please be gentle...........

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 14:49:02 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Since then, other than running a three man company for a few years, I've structured my business around the recognition that my man management skills probably rank alongside those of Herr Goebbels.[/quote]

Well, he was a great PR man.

Re: Please be gentle...........

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 14:42:53 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"][quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]As to my take on the problem (who cares what my take is?).[/quote]

Since you have considerable experience in what I still refer to as man management, we do.[/quote]

Hate to disappoint you, but my experience of man management is limited to a short spell in charge of a small team of young girls in a PR agency. They seemed to want to spend the entire morning discussing what had happened the night before, and expecting me to a) be interested and b) care.

Unfortunately, on day 3 I cracked, explaining that I didn't care and wasn't interested, and that they should get on with some work.

They revolted on me that afternoon. I was relieved of my post and given a new rather more autonomous position in the company (it was OK, it wasn't the lavatory attendant!).

Since then, other than running a three man company for a few years, I've structured my business around the recognition that my man management skills probably rank alongside those of Herr Goebbels. So I work on my own and outsource everything to people who I think probably like me and hate me by turns, but that's OK, because it's such a very different (and I think simpler) relationship to the one you have with an employee. [quote user="glen mcintosh"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]and once he couldn't get the throttle of the port outer to hornswoggle the backup oleo of the starboard undercarriage without checking oil pressure and applying starboard thrust on the secondary trim tab" what should be the pilot's actions do you think? [/quote]

Well, quite frankly, IMHO, any co pilot who can't get the throttle of the port outer to hornswoggle the backup oleo of the starboard undercarriage and didn't bother to check oil pressure or apply starboard thrust on the secondary trim tab needs a damn good bollocking - right Arlo? [/quote]

Absolutely.

Re: Please be gentle...........

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 12:45:00 GMT

Maybe they are. Hope we find out!

Re: Please be gentle...........

Bob Russell — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 11:47:26 GMT

My sympathy for the boss is limited by two factors:

I have not heard the bosses side of things but reading the OP my sympathies are with her.

Not all bosses are well trained in people management. It can be tough.

Overall I would be horrified if I felt my actions had resulted in such stress and would be apologising and trying to rescue the situation!

Re: Please be gentle...........

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:39:14 GMT

Perhaps it is time to quote Voltaire which applies on so many levels in this thread: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

PS Francisco I gave you 5 stars for your last post.

Re: Please be gentle...........

Glen McIntosh — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:32:23 GMT

But Evelyn is right:

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]None of this is about refusing to listen if the kennelmaid says "Er, isn't it the left kidney that's due to come out?"[/quote]

It is about petty sniping to the boss by people who lack the courage and maturity to speak directly to the person involved and lack the experience to recognise that the issues they are expressing concern about are none of their business, yet they have an inflated sense of self importance to think that their opinions on these issues warrant involving the boss.

But these type people are common in any work environment, and should be taken with a grain of salt.

What is far more disturbing is the response of the boss to these complaints. Even if the boss lacked the wit to recognise these complaints for their vexatious nature, there is absolutely no excuse for discussing them with the OP in public.

I would suggest to the OP that if they don't decide to leave anyway, then they make careful contemporaneous records of time, date, witnesses etc of all of these types of interactions with the boss in the future, and if the boss continues with this type of behaviour and the OP ultimately feels compelled to leave their job because of it, then they might well have a case for constructive dismissal that an employment tribunal would probably take seriously.

This boss needs a boot up the arse.

Re: Please be gentle...........

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:27:08 GMT

Ok, maybe my approach is a bit rough. And I, of course, consider other people opinions even if they're not qualified. But when I say:

[quote] this is so wrong at so many levels

[/quote]

I really mean it.

I see several practice owners here being a bit sympathetic with Anon boss. And I agree that

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

diplomacy

[/quote]

is good place to start.

But before we do 'sympathy' with the boss,. let's do a bit of 'role play' first. Imaging, in a practice meeting, your employee comes publicly and says in front of the other members of staff:

- Your management skills are terrible, you shouldn't have shared publicly your untrained nurse complain in front of others: not only you've humiliated me (like I'm doing to you now) but also you're not improving things, if anything, you are making them trusting me less, to the point of me now having a very difficult relationship with the rest of the staff.

- If you are an MRCVS, you should know that with 10 years of experience I'm more than capable of managing my own cases. I'm happy to listen to other people's opinion but the final decision is MINE. end of. If you don't like it, sack me.

- Changing from trying to put a catheter on a small dyspnoeic dog to deciding on supplying oxygen, is also my decision and it is a good one. Again that shows your poor veterinary knowledge.

- If an untrained person feels uncomfortable doing nights with me, you should blame either yourself or the person that is feeling uncomfortable. I'm here to do my job, not to sort your problems. My night nurse is here to help me, not for me to trying to make him/her feel 'comfortable'.

- If you do have complains about my surgical time, you need to tell me exactly what is expected of me. 20 minutes extra doesn't cost you more than having to re-open a bleeding spay.

- If you want to solve a problem, identify it and be clear on what it is. I can't solve it any other way. Again that is your job and you don't seem to be doing it very well.

Now, practice boss, after this meeting, if you think you have the maturity to call it even and save that relationship, fine.

On the other hand, if you think that stomach ulcer* is going to kill you tonight after hearing all this, maybe

[quote] leave immediately!

[/quote] is the answer

PS. *Antepsin is out of stock.

[edit] I'm aware we have only half of the story here. But if everything is as described, I think trying to see the problem for this other point of view would be helpful.