Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Jill Butterworth — Fri, 12 Dec 2014 16:00:04 GMT

I assume he must be a nightmare to work for, so one day he will get his comeuppance...You could just log your concerns at the RCVS but don't give yourself the stress of fighting it further...

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Anthony Dennison — Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:08:23 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]When you have had a load of ex. clients phoning up out of hours because it is suddenly convenient to come to you when they've just found out their new practice's OOH provider is 45 minutes away Anthony, maybe you would understand her attitude a little better [/quote]

I'm very open with our OOH arrangements with new clients for this precise reason, and most people are happy. I explain it is a distance, but even if it is just for an advice call there is always someone at the end of the phone. We're the one of the cheapest in the area at weekends, often get people travelling over an hour.

However, the practice I rang don't do their own OOH so even less reason to be snotty!

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 18:23:40 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"] I rang one vets for a history and they started the spanish inquisition about our OOH cover, and how we couldn't possibly do that, the RCVS wouldn't allow it, etc. (Our 24hr centre is about 45 minutes away - 'and do you think 45 minutes is appropriate in an emergency situation?!') Real vile woman, still haven't got the history either![/quote]When you have had a load of ex. clients phoning up out of hours because it is suddenly convenient to come to you when they've just found out their new practice's OOH provider is 45 minutes away Anthony, maybe you would understand her attitude a little better, especially if you've just opened up on their doorstep.

We have someone who opened up nearby and seems to find great pleasure in phoning to ask for the history for those who've jumped ship but aren't so happy when clients start coming the other way because they've found out the truth about how they run the practice!

Still no excuse for not sending the history - they are obliged to, so maybe you'd like to riposte with a threat to report them for failing to follow the guide to professional conduct.

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:53:51 GMT

I don't think there are any other not for profit practices.... After all, the rest of us are putting profit before animal welfare.....

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:26:53 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Our assistants are being heavily pestered into working for a not-for-profit local practice! Many mobile phone calls later and one of our vets (he has no idea where they got his number from) lost his temper and told them to **** off. They offered increased pay, holidays etc etc.....not even knowing what he currently gets!

Some people just have no ethics. It just makes me smile cos they're obviously struggling to recruit vets.

[/quote]

Feel your pain Gillian if I know where you're talking about... We had the opposite; 2 of their vets applied to us and we were told what it was like working there. Eye opening!

As my practice have just opened a new branch and put me in charge, we are getting a few clients coming to us (after an advert in a couple of the local free papers). I rang one vets for a history and they started the spanish inquisition about our OOH cover, and how we couldn't possibly do that, the RCVS wouldn't allow it, etc. (Our 24hr centre is about 45 minutes away - 'and do you think 45 minutes is appropriate in an emergency situation?!') Real vile woman, still haven't got the history either!

I'm not actively publicising myself, but people are coming in and then talking to their friends, I can't help that!

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Braden Collins — Fri, 21 Nov 2014 09:26:54 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]

[quote user="Braden Collins"]Politely, no thanks!

Dr X[/quote]

Hmm, I've read it a couple of times - I still can't see the polite bit. Mind you, if this is the "evil" Dr X, you could be in trouble! All very strange. I make it a policy never to take any letter seriously when it contains the phrase "utter contempt".

Seriously though, this bloke sounds paranoid to the extreme - how can you 'steal' a professional, no one employs someone against their will - either they prefer the conditions in another job or they don't.

The best way to deal with this sort of thing is to carry on working to standards which are the highest you can manage and which suit you, your staff and clients, and be consistent.

Cheers,

Niall

[/quote]

If you were feeling malicious, you could circulate Dr. X's message to all the other practices in town

[/quote]

He sent me the email from his private email address. I was a bit naughty and sent my reply to his clinic reception email, with his letter still attached. Always worth people knowing what their boss does in his time off.

I am glad he clarified things at the end with the politely because until then I thought he was being a complete cock......

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 23:25:09 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]

[quote user="Braden Collins"]Politely, no thanks!

Dr X[/quote]

The best way to deal with this sort of thing is to carry on working to standards which are the highest you can manage and which suit you, your staff and clients, and be consistent.

Cheers,

Niall

[/quote]

If you were feeling malicious, you could circulate Dr. X's message to all the other practices in town

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Niall Taylor — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 15:43:13 GMT

[quote user="Braden Collins"]Politely, no thanks!

Dr X[/quote]

The best way to deal with this sort of thing is to carry on working to standards which are the highest you can manage and which suit you, your staff and clients, and be consistent.

Cheers,

Niall

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Bob Russell — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 15:05:00 GMT

[quote user="Gerry Henry"]

What would you do with a neighbouring practitioner who continually denigrates you, makes false claims about your competence and generally winds clients up to the point where they make formal complaints to the RCVS (not upheld). Anyone got any experience of this, I'm seriously considering legal action.

[/quote]

Just be extra nice to your clients, offer the very best service you can, keep good records and deal with the RCVS with respect. They will get the message where the problems lie!

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Bob Russell — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 15:02:18 GMT

[quote user="Braden Collins"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

If you did not make an offer and a vet approached you then there is nothing wrong with correcting your colleague in a response to the letter.

Sounds like sour grapes and you probably would never win with people that have this attitude!

My close opposition is from more traditionally minded practices and I prefer to support colleagues. 'If you don't have anything good to say about someone, say nothing'.

Despite this clients have been known to twst innocent comments into apparent criticisms!

Quite nice to know that in Australia council still has some control over practices setting up (even if possibly abusing the situation). In the UK it seems to be similar to the wild west.

In year gone by no practice would have considered using names such as 'The Vet, My Vet or The Only Vet In The Village' or place names for fear of the RCVS coming down on them hard!

I suspect these people are small minded, insecure and will be seen by most as being petty!

[/quote]

I gave the vet that applied for the job my word that I wouldn't say anything to her boss, and I don't know if she told him or if he's ust fishing to find out. Either way I gave her my word so can't correct him without causing her trouble.

We actually get along with the other vets in town and even share after hours with another clinic, and it's actually him that no-one else wll deal with. But he's one of those business owners that enter all the small business award things so has a very good external image but the industry as a whole knows what he is really like - even some drug reps won't go to his clinic.

I simply replied to his email by saying "Your Comments have been noted", as like you say I would never win with that bloke, and at the end of the day I really have no need or desire to be on friendly terms with someone like him.

Our plan from here is to ignore him and keep on doing what we're doing, but it's a pain knowing we have to be so particular about everything just to ensure he can't put in another complaint about a facebook post or similar.

[/quote]

The most I would suggest is that you make it very clear that you did not make any approach to any practice staff in the area and would not consider recruiting that way.

I think not responding at all is probably the better thing to do! Ars=holes very quickly gain an appropriate reputation!

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 14:33:34 GMT

Some people just have no ethics. It just makes me smile cos they're obviously struggling to recruit vets.

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Braden Collins — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 13:48:40 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

If you did not make an offer and a vet approached you then there is nothing wrong with correcting your colleague in a response to the letter.

Sounds like sour grapes and you probably would never win with people that have this attitude!

My close opposition is from more traditionally minded practices and I prefer to support colleagues. 'If you don't have anything good to say about someone, say nothing'.

Despite this clients have been known to twst innocent comments into apparent criticisms!

Quite nice to know that in Australia council still has some control over practices setting up (even if possibly abusing the situation). In the UK it seems to be similar to the wild west.

In year gone by no practice would have considered using names such as 'The Vet, My Vet or The Only Vet In The Village' or place names for fear of the RCVS coming down on them hard!

I suspect these people are small minded, insecure and will be seen by most as being petty!

[/quote]

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Gerry Henry — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 11:40:41 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

The boot could be firmly on the other foot here. We have a neighbouring practice I could generally make such claims about and they would all be true but I try to bite my tongue as far as possible. Sadly on one occasion I didn't bite hard enough and a mutual client went and reported back. An unholy row ensued and he threatened to report me to the RCVS until I pointed out that I had a signed and sworn statement of his multiple wrong doings from one ex nurse and the verbal reports from 3 others which which would dig a rather big hole for him and so yes please go ahead and report me. Not surprisingly he did nothing. Now I'm sure he still thinks that what he does is acceptable and would take the same attitude as you Gerry.

I don't doubt your ability and competence but have you ever given them cause to cast such aspersions? If you have not than yes I would take some action and report him to the RCVS for starters.

[/quote]

Put it this way Martin, another local practice (highly respected 1st opinion and referral, I won't say what discipline) won't send him X Rays as they 'don't trust him not to misrepresent to clients' but make him attend their surgery to view the images in person; says it all I think.

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Francisco Gomez — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:35:04 GMT

I personally never take too seriously claims from other vet practices when these are made by the owner. Very often, your new client only wants you to agree with them.

Even within my own practice, sometimes I see clients who don't like a colleague. When you compare notes and what the client is claiming, most of the time you realise that the patient is not improving because the client hadn't followed advice properly.

Right now this comes to my mind:

***

Owner:

They told me this lump, now a MCT, was nothing to worry about last year!!!

Notes from colleague:

Discussed lump with O, explained can't make a pathologist decision without surgery or sampling. Adv strongly recommend surgical excission, however O adamant wants to W&S.

***

By the way, this: http://www.vetsurgeon.org/forums/p/20683/124552.aspx#124552 was fuelled from a vet. The client kept claiming that they have been talking to 'another vet' about the case and that this vet believed that my treatment was not appropriate. But they were more clever than this, they never disclosed who this vet was.

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Robin Grimmer — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:15:59 GMT

Maybe try and arrange a meeting face to face? You might find it's completely unfounded client bs. Or if there is any truth in it you can confront him about it.

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:00:14 GMT

I'm afraid this is typical of the deteriorating standards of professional behaviour.

Wynne

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Bob Russell — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:18:47 GMT

If you did not make an offer and a vet approached you then there is nothing wrong with correcting your colleague in a response to the letter.

Sounds like sour grapes and you probably would never win with people that have this attitude!

My close opposition is from more traditionally minded practices and I prefer to support colleagues. 'If you don't have anything good to say about someone, say nothing'.

Despite this clients have been known to twst innocent comments into apparent criticisms!

Quite nice to know that in Australia council still has some control over practices setting up (even if possibly abusing the situation). In the UK it seems to be similar to the wild west.

In year gone by no practice would have considered using names such as 'The Vet, My Vet or The Only Vet In The Village' or place names for fear of the RCVS coming down on them hard!

I suspect these people are small minded, insecure and will be seen by most as being petty!

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Braden Collins — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 07:19:50 GMT

Got this letter from our opposition a while ago. He's already reported me to the Vet Surgeons Board for a Facebook post and has blocked anyone else opening a clinic near him by using his influence and mates on council. The letter he referrs to is a letter I sent to all vets in the region informing them we have an ophthalmologist coming down from Perth on a regular basis and offering them the chance to refer to them instead of having their clients drive the 200km each way to Perth. the letter came with the usual reassurances that any clients referred for this service will not be seen at our clinic for a period of 12 months from the date of referral for anything other than referral work.

He refers in his letter to me trying to poach his vets. The reality is one of his vets applied for a job with us (though we didn't give her the job). I'm afraid many of us have "difficult neighbouring clinics", but I'm not sure how to deal with themo ther than keeping your nose clean and not letting what they do influence what you do yourself. In the longrun they'll exhaust themselves trying to run you down.

Dear Braden,
I was surprised to receive an e-mail from you asking for referrals. I have no problem with you being ambitious and trying to do the best for yourself in life. That is only fair and reasonable. I admire you for raising the bar for the profession and striving for excellence. This can only benefit all veterinarians in Bunbury and of course the community and the animals we serve.

I am not particularly happy that you have tried to poach our veterinarians although it is flattering that you feel your business would benefit from stealing our professionals. One of our veterinarians came to me about your offer so don't deny it. This type of unethical behaviour has contributed to the rapid disintegration of your reputation amongst other veterinary practices in Bunbury. I think it unlikely that these hospitals will refer work to you when you treat them with utter contempt, target their clients and try to steal their professionals and lay staff. This isnt really the foundation to ask for referrals and displays a remarkable immaturity in business and common sense for that matter.

We have always had good relations with the veterinary hospitals in Bunbury. I can assure you however, that we will not be referring you work for two reasons in addition to my total lack of respect for you. In the first instance we can do anything you can do. In the unlikely event that there was something that our veterinary team cannot do, we will be referring to real specialists at the University or other specialist referral practices as required. The inference from your invitation is that we are offering an inferior service to yours which underlines your hubris, arrogance and your obvious delusions of grandeur.

Politely, no thanks!

Dr X

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

James Laidlaw — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:40:10 GMT

I generally try not to comment at all on anyone else's work. Might be very difficult to prove they're saying what you're hearing back from clients...

Re: Difficult professional 'colleagues'

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:14:01 GMT

I don't doubt your ability and competence but have you ever given them cause to cast such aspersions? If you have not than yes I would take some action and report him to the RCVS for starters.