Ironman?

Re: Ironman?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:59:41 GMT

My daughter has seconded my Focus cyclo-cross bike for triathlon and with the saddle down a shorter stem and some Continental GP 4000 tyres it makes a versatile machine.

She wants a bike of her own and I've offered to pay for it. That will be guilt free bike buying (not that I usually feel guilty anyway) but despite the money burning a hole in my pocket I can't get her to the shop - even an on-line shop, she's always too busy!

However winter is upon us and more reasons to spend money - skiing/snowboarding. I've just forked out the thick end of £1000 on off-piste safety equipment.

Re: Ironman?

Sandra Milburn — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:53:10 GMT

Or do what my husband does: he bought a bike for 'us'. Very nice of him, apart from the fact that is a tiny bit on the big side for me. And also: he probably will want it back on race day, so I still have to get on my 'entry level bike' and pedal that much harder to push it round the course!

2015 - new bike me thinks :)

next question: which one??

Re: Ironman?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 18 Nov 2014 14:40:53 GMT

[quote user="louise nixon"]But first I need to get a new bike (no honest I do, cos my current one is a bit too big)![/quote]

There is never a need to justify buying a new bike except to your (unsympathetic) partner. You may wish to peruse The Rules at http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/ , albeit it is very tongue in cheek piece of self deprecation for road cyclists. However this applies:

Rule #12

// The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.

While the minimum number of bikes one should own is three, the correct number is n+1, where n is the number of bikes currently owned. This equation may also be re-written as s-1, where s is the number of bikes owned that would result in separation from your partner.

I found that 'er indoors takes so little interest in my bikes that she wouldn't notice if there was new one. It is also the advantage of having many that its a bit like giving a bitch another puppy to suckle - she won't notice another one. Which is just as well considering how much I spend on bikes that would of course in the eyes of others be better spent on home improvements we can't afford!!

What is however ironic is that the other day she stood looking at my gleaming re-sprayed winter/training/touring/commuting bike (see I've already saved having 4 different bikes with one) and asked how much it cost. I had to be honest and stood up like a man and said that if I was to buy it new now it would be £3,500 but of course it only cost £400 to have an old bike re-sprayed. Expecting a horrified backlash she rolled her eyes and patronisingly said, 'Ha...my friend's son has just spent £8,000 on a bike'. By this one act of extravagance, said friends's son has justified my bike expenditure.

Re: Ironman?

louise nixon — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 21:02:14 GMT

Hi Sandra

I'm not sure how to pm you? But likewise glad to exchange notes

Louise

Re: Ironman?

louise nixon — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 20:53:42 GMT

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions and links!

Like others I started with sprints and olympics, did a half in 2013 and a 2\3 im in 2014. Plan to repeat that 2\3 next year and then hopefully the full distance in 2016, most likely Bolton as its in the same country and not a sea swim! Plenty of people in my club who's brains I can pick, and I may get someone to help with the program as well. Time management is the part that worries me most - I don't want to start something I can't continue because it starts to impact on my work. I guess I'll just have to get very organised.

But first I need to get a new bike (no honest I do, cos my current one is a bit too big)!

Re: Ironman?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 17:36:14 GMT

To add to my previous utterances I came across this article on base training browsing my road cycling forum:

http://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/six-things-need-know-base-training.html/1

Re: Ironman?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:31:01 GMT

[quote user="Stigen"]I Guess you can develop a pretty good endurance base by simple progressive cardio training over a month or two. A study showed that simple high intensity high Power short runs can build a good endurance base just as well as doing the long runs. [/quote] I would venture that the subject in the study you quoted had already built his base, albeit he was over-training, and thus was able to benefit when he reduced his volume to shorter higher intensity efforts. But it may also just go to demonstrate that the same method does not work for all athletes and nothing is cast in stone.

Another side to the coin is that in order to maintain enthusiasm and not become disillusioned you have to enjoy your training. It so happens that I enjoy long runs and cycle rides and hate the short sharp stuff and I would become disillusioned if I didn't have those to look forward to.

Re: Ironman?

Ian Mostyn — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 23:37:08 GMT

I think (hope) it is more than possible to do an Ironman and work full time as I am planning to do Ironman UK in Bolton in 2016. 2012 was sprint distance races, 2013 was olympics, 2014 was half-iron year and probably 2 or 3 half - irons next year. I managed a perfectly respectable time on 8 to 10 hours a week max. This did mean a lot of running and swimming after work at 9 or 10pm but there is so much rubbish on the telly these days it makes it easier. The thing I find tricky is the cycling as finding 3 or 4 hours of free time in daylight can be difficult to fit in around work. That is something I will have to work out closer to 2016.

Your main block of training is going to be 3 months to 3 weeks out from the race and you may have to do some careful planning then. The peak weeks will be 16 - 20 hours maybe - a couple of long rides will be 10 hours of that. The rest of your training shouldn't need to be more than 8 to 10 hours a week which you have been doing already.

I think organisation is the key to a busy life. I am going to draw up a detailed plan starting from January 2016 leading up to the race in July with specific, focussed training sessions at times I know I can usually make. It wont work 100% of the time but 80% will do. I know I am not going to Kona so I wont put any time expectations on myself other than for the swim (my best discipline). 16h 59m will do just fine (not really but I keep telling myself that). I am going to lean heavily on members of the tri club who have done Ironman already for advice and tips.

If you can do a half on 10 - 12 hours you will get round an Ironman - second time round you can go for a better time

Ian

Re: Ironman?

Stigen — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:01:26 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Stigen"]I think with the right exercise 4 hours a week is more than enough.[/quote]It depends on whether you already have a good endurance base and whether you want to just get round or compete. I do nearly twice that just to keep fit with a mixture of cycling running and a bit of gym work and consider that a minimum. I do it for fun so it is no hardship and indeed feel pretty low if I don't. If you already have a very solid base to your pyramid then 4 hours intensive exercise a week may keep you at the peak for a few weeks but as said before if you don't keep re-building the base then it will crumble. I feel there is a danger of making someone who is not an experienced athlete think they don't have to put in the hard miles. At sometime you have to there is no substitute for that. [/quote]

I Guess you can develop a pretty good endurance base by simple progressive cardio training over a month or two. A study showed that simple high intensity high Power short runs can build a good endurance base just as well as doing the long runs. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15576662

dr Izumi Tabata showed this very well in his study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8897392 .
This and other studies have showed that People that do short runs at Maximum capacity will gain as much endurance as the People who run 5 km every day, in many cases even more, and without the Extreme strain to the body.

This is an excerpt from a book I read about endurance training:

Brian climbed up the ranks of the triathlon world with an Olympic-distance race, a half-Ironman, and then the Canadian Ironman. He trained 24 to 30 hours per week, just as his competitors did, including roughly eight miles of swimming, 200+ miles of cycling, and 50+ miles of running. It was par for the course in the endurance world, but it wasn’t good for the body, his relationships, or much of anything else. He was severely overtrained,

In 2001, he was introduced to the controversial Dr. Nicolas Romanov, which marked a turning point. Brian began to question the logic of high-volume, low-speed aerobic training and started to focus on doing less to achieve more. In June of 2006, he ran the Western States 100-mile endurance race, which has more than 17,000 vertical feet of climbing and more than 22,000 feet of downhill knee destruction. He finished in just over 26 hours. Compared to the mere 11-hour Ironman, he’d reduced his training from 30 hours per week to 10.5 hours per week. But the 10.5 hours per week was still too much, and his body was still suffering, as was his marriage.
On September 15, 2007, after further refinement, Brian completed what is considered the fourth-toughest 100-mile run in the world, the Angeles Crest 100.14 This time, he averaged just 6.5 hours of training per week, which included strength training (almost three hours), CrossFit, intervals, and pace work. His body had learned to become aerobic at the higher paces, even during speed training. Just before adopting this training mix, his one-rep max in the squat was 250 pounds.15 Three weeks before the race, he could easily squat 240 pounds for six consecutive reps, and he hadn’t put on a single pound of body weight.
Now he was faster at every distance. It didn’t matter if it was 100 meters or 100 miles "

I`m not saying that this is going to be easier than the option. I think it will need a good portion of hard work, and constantly pushing the max Level. The advantage is that for someone who has very little spare time this could acheive the results faster. And obviously less risk of straining the joints and muscles by continuous pressure.
There is a good program called "5k to 50K in 12 weeks". It incorporates running,crossfit and strength.
As for becoming better swimmer I think the full immersion dvd program is superb. It goes through all of the physique,and the Dynamics before you even enter the water.

Re: Ironman?

karen jones — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:48:40 GMT

It's on my wish list, though linked to other thread our new grad is younger than my youngest daughter! I was thinking of doing olympic distance this year then half building up to full in 2017. The swim and bike hold less terror than running marathon off the back of them. If I make it may even get the tattoo. A friend who did Tenby this year followed a detailed plan and says she initially thought she could do it on her own but found she needed the support of other people to keep her biking and running , support , exercise buddies and understanding ears seem to be necessary? I would say if you have the inclination and the time do it, don't regret going for it. Where are you based a good club or group is very important .😃

Re: Ironman?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:51:33 GMT

Re: Ironman?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:01:17 GMT

[quote user="Stigen"] It seems to be having some effect. I`m chiseled like a greek God these days. [/quote]

No comment. Just jealous.

Re: Ironman?

Stigen — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:29:01 GMT

I don`t think "more is better" is necessarily right when it comes to excercise. Even more important than the excercise you do is the recuperation between sessions, and that it is not cut short. I think when training for something like ironman it is easy to overdo it, and risk injuries/strains.
If time is the problem, then maybe you can look at practical physical training , like cycling back and forth to the work, and maybe doing some intensive circuit training in lunch breaks(if those things exist in your practice). I think high intensity interval training (also known as HIIT) is the most effective way of getting super fit with very short sessions.

High intensity interval training

I think with the right excercise 4 hours a week is more than enough. You should read "4-hour body" by Tim Ferris , really interesting book. I`m currently following his Occams protocol for maximum effect strength excercise. It seems to be having some effect. I`m chiseled like a greek God these days.
There is one chapter in his book about crossfit/running/cardio training that you might find interesting.

Re: Ironman?

Sandra Milburn — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:58:36 GMT

Hi Louise

Am currently toying with exactly the same thought. I still have not entered one, but am currently actively looking to find one that fits into my year ahead. Easier said than done. Like previous advice, I am thinking about 6 months of training. And yes, you need to tell people that you are training for an IM and get them on side to ensure you have enough support and understanding, as I can just imagine how much time gets taken up.

I have read some interesting facts about all this long distance training lark and its not all about spending long periods of time training, but about planning correctly, being flexible, doing the right kind of training and when to do it etc.

My half IM plan I followed had a 'time rich' and a time poor option and I looked at the IM version of these plans. Here is the link: http://www.triradar.com/training-advice/ironman-triathlon-training-plans/

From my point of view, the other important thing is to 'not sweat the small stuff'. From time to time you will not be able to make a session. If that is the case, I try not to worry about it too much and stay on track, not playing catch-up. Ensure you listen to your body and get niggles sorted. Have an extra rest day if you need, if you are tired and push yourself, there is more potential for injury.

My situation is similar to yours. I am in full time employment and do a lot of travelling for my job, including weekends as well, so not always able to do more than a run whilst away (I do now look if there are pools/ gyms where I go!)

Happy to exchange notes, pm me if you want!

Sandra

Re: Ironman?

Robin Grimmer — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:32:11 GMT

[quote user="louise nixon"]

Does anyone have any experience / advice / thoughts on training for an ironman while working full time? My main concern is whether I can fit the volume of training around work. I do one night on call and one night second call a week, plus one in four weekends. I've completed half ironman without problems (though I'm a very average athlete!), and managed up to 10-12 hours training per week, though it can be as low as four on a bad week. Obviously it would be ideal to do more for the longer distance, but work gets in the way!

Any tips appreciated!

[/quote]

Give up your job and become a locum! ;-)

Re: Ironman?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:55:35 GMT

[quote user="ceri stewart"]

No personal experience, but the ironman I know is head teacher of 2 schools, plays in a band, sings in a choir, has 3 small children and still finds time to train! (not sure he manages though)

[/quote]Something that's a combination of: 'Where there's a will there's a way'; 'Work available expands to fit time available'; and 'If you want something doing ask a busy man to do it'.

Re: Ironman?

ceri stewart — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:56:59 GMT

No personal experience, but the ironman I know is head teacher of 2 schools, plays in a band, sings in a choir, has 3 small children and still finds time to train! (not sure he manages though)

Re: Ironman?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 09:32:48 GMT

Where exercise is concerned, I'm firmly in the George Orwell camp - four legs good, two legs bad. Count me out unless I can ride!

Wynne

Re: Ironman?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 09:09:43 GMT

[quote user="Rebecca Sheppard"]the quality of the sessions may need to be improved, for example more interval and speed work to improve running endurance (it works wonders[/quote]Not sure I entirely agree with that Rebecca. I agree that you don't have to train at ironman distances to be able to do one (speaking for running and cycling not swimming now) once you can cycle 50 miles you can cycle 100 but psychologically some people have to prove to themselves they can do it with at least one nearly full distance training session of each event, I don't now but I used to.

True that if time is short then better quality/interval sessions are more beneficial than half an hour at a steady pace but you still need a good base of endurance work to build on.

So the long miles come first over the winter to form the base then the shorter higher quality training will build on it but some endurance work is still needed or the base of the pyramid may start to crumble.

Re: Ironman?

Braden Collins — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 06:49:55 GMT

I did an Ironman a few years ago.

Great books to plan your training: "Triathletes Training Bible" and "Going Long".

Aim for a 6 month training block. You can do some technique work before this but trying to train for ironman for longer than 6 months will lead to injury and overtraining.

Be prepared to get injured. I got to know my physio so well I went to his leaving party.

I peaked at over 20hours/week. I trained morning and night when needed, did a long run, swim and bike weelky. Long swim was up to 4km. Long run up to 2.5 hours, and long bike up to 200km with a 90 minute run (at my peak)

You will have to get used to very early mornings. 5:30am was my normal start time to get a good session before work, then I'd do a bit more after work.

You need an understanding partner. You will have little time for anything else. You will eat, sleep, work and train and that will be your life. You will have no libido, but that will be ok because you'll be too tired for sex for the whole 6 months. Look at this youtube video to understand what you will be like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B03dFMG8nR4

If you are short on time, focus on your long sessions. If nothing else do a long run, swim and bike every week (building slowly). Everything else will make you faster but the long sessions are the essential bits.

Wind trainiers are great for on call. I did hours on mine with the phone next to the bike. Swimming is also possinble with your phone at the end of the pool in a waterproof case, checking it every few laps.

It's also expensive. By the time you take into account entries, accomodation, bike parts and servicing, shoes, nutrition, etc it can cost thousands.

the best part of the day is when you stand on the start line. You'll feel fresh and the atmosphere is incredible. I loved that part. The finish line is just a blur of pain. The day I did it we hit over 40 degrees on the course and I fell of my bike at 35km/hour, so there was no feeling of elation I expected at the finish line, just a blur of pain, nausea, dehydration and medical staff. I've never felt so sick in my life and it took me 6 months before I wanted to do any exercise again. It took 3 days before I even stopped feeling sick.

That said, I'm so glad I did an Ironman. It hurts, you'll suffer, you'll have to give up a lot, but to be able to look back at it is a great feeling.

Re: Ironman?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 12 Nov 2014 22:04:05 GMT

Ian and I are in the Rochdale Triathlon club and the coaches and fellow athletes provide brilliant advice and support. If you aren't in one already...join a group!

Re: Ironman?

Rebecca Sheppard — Wed, 12 Nov 2014 19:37:16 GMT

Go for it, where there's a will there's a way! I'm a runner and cyclist married to a keen triathlete. My advice would be to remember that you don't have to do twice the training for an Iron Man, but the quality of the sessions may need to be improved, for example more interval and speed work to improve running endurance (it works wonders). Good luck!

Re: Ironman?

bob lehner — Wed, 12 Nov 2014 19:05:20 GMT

[quote user="louise nixon"]Does anyone have any experience / advice / thoughts on training for an ironman while working full time? My main concern is whether I can fit the volume of training around work.[/quote]

For goodness sake woman - get a grip of yourself - just go and lie down on a comfy sofa with a good book and a plate of chips....

Re: Ironman?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:47:42 GMT

My other half Ian is currently planning to do Ironman UK 2016. He has also done a few halfs this year......I would have thought it is very possible but is likely to swallow up most of your free time! Partner/family will need to be understanding!

Which one are you planning to do?

Re: Ironman?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:11:12 GMT

See if you can get hold of Edmund Shilabeer here's a link to his website: http://www.devonvets.co.uk/. He thought Ironman triathlons were for sissies so he organised and competed in the first Ironman Quadrathon - yup thats the other three events with 52K race walk afterwards. He managed to train for this while running his sole charge practice. He is a most approachable and modest man. If he can't help then no-one can. But there are one or two others on here who may be able to help.

I have combined training for a marathon while still cycle racing but I can't swim to save my life (well that's actually about as much swimming as I could do) and there was no big secret, I just got out when I could often after work at night or first thing in the morning. Just avoid the temptation to over-train or try to catch up missed sessions and factor in at least one rest day.