Scottish Referendum

Re: Scottish Referendum

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:25:43 GMT

Unfortunately, I think you're right on taxation - but it could have come down if the Scots became independent. Now I think even if you may see a reduction in taxation mine are absolutely certain to go up. Both Plaid Cymru and Labour are rabid loony leftie parties, so further devolution will mean that they're guaranteed to raise taxes.

Wynne

Re: Scottish Referendum

Bob Russell — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:51:50 GMT

Cameron has not offered a financial bribe as far as I can see. There has been a promise of rapid changes to increase devolved powers.

He has quite astutely (IMO) indicated a rapid move down this route which seems to have wrong-footed labour who seem more inclined to keep the rather important Scottish MP's at Westminster.

The West Lothian question cannot be ignored. Devolving powers should move decision making rather than allow two bites at the cherry!

Short term the logical thing would be to 'devolve' votes to Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland at the same time as restricting votes on purely English matters to English MP's alone.

Clearly Labour don't want this as it will make it more difficult to govern if voted back next election. Not sure why Scottish MP's would want to vote on England's railways or NHS England, except to support a Labour government.

Taxes are unlikely to come down, the real issue is how much they go up!

Re: Scottish Referendum

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:35:01 GMT

As far as I'm concerned, we've ended up with what (for me ) is the worst possible option.

If Scotland had voted "Yes" my taxes would have come down.

If Scotland had voted "No" but without Cameron's bribe there would have been no impetus for further devolution elsewhere, so my taxes would have remained the same.

As it is, further devolution is likely to increase my taxes.

Wynne

Re: Scottish Referendum

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 22 Sep 2014 08:59:22 GMT

Liz I agree with you that Scotland is better off in the Union - and if I had been Scottish, I'd have voted no. I'm equally certain that those of us who live in England/Wales would be better off (lower taxes) if we didn't have the Scots socialists- so I'm sorry they didn't vote yes.

Wynne

Re: Scottish Referendum

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 21 Sep 2014 16:59:55 GMT

Cameron's already in deep trouble with at least 20 of his own MPs over his reckless bribes!

Wynne

Re: Scottish Referendum

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sun, 21 Sep 2014 11:19:17 GMT

I just hope none of those poor horses or police dogs (if they were also deployed) were hurt.

Wynne

Re: Scottish Referendum

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 20 Sep 2014 18:14:14 GMT

Yes, looks like something out of Les Miz. not inappropriate either. I'm still concerned that so few British citizens were entitled to vote on a matter with such profound consequences to the entire UK.

Lets hope the whining stops now, and with any luck the net result will be positive in that better representation is shared across all the UK.

Of course, just so long as it doesn't result in an extra layer of politicians and beurocrats all milking the public tit - we have enough of those already

Re: Scottish Referendum

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 20 Sep 2014 18:09:50 GMT

Brilliant photograph, anyway!

Re: Scottish Referendum

tamsin thomas — Sat, 20 Sep 2014 16:51:28 GMT

some people will use any excuse....i don't think these people were supporters of the 'better together' campaign. united we stand, divided we allow tw*ts like that to prosper.

Re: Scottish Referendum

Sammy82 — Sat, 20 Sep 2014 13:36:23 GMT

Burning Saltires, nazi salutes and flares being fired are NOT your average friday night in Glasgow. To sit in a Glasgow pub (not in the centre thankfully) and see the news about the riots unfolding was bluntly frightening. I wouldn't be surprised if half of the rioters weren't even from Scotland and travelled quite a distance to get here, and as mentioned before the Orange Order played their part.

The reported stabbing could sadly be put down as a normal friday night event.

Re: Scottish Referendum

Colin Thomson — Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:52:19 GMT

I think there was an Orange Order element in it. Police seem to be saying its been blown out of proportion by the press. As someone commented nothing more than you might expect on any Glasgow Friday night.

Re: Scottish Referendum

Bob Russell — Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:43:30 GMT

The thing with politicians is that you have the power to vote them out!

If more disagree with you than agree then the politician stays! Called democracy!

I was alarmed with the pro-unity mob that created problems in Glasgow last night. I do wonder if this was orchestrated trouble making that had the wind knocked out of it when the result was No!

Would there have been riots (caused by yobs, not genuine union supporters) had the vote gone the other way?

I very much doubt we have heard the last of Mr Salmond though.

Re: Scottish Referendum

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:36:37 GMT

My massive worry is that further regional devolution will give Wales more control of taxes and welfare - and given that the Assembly is overwhelmingly socialist, my already eye-wateringly high tax bills will increase further.

Wynne

Re: Scottish Referendum

Liz w — Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:26:35 GMT

I disagree. I think the mega bribe made very little difference. I just think that when it came to it, people felt the Yes side was made up of promises which couldn't be fulfilled without causing financial hardship. If they'd done the sums before the referendum and the books were balancing, then I think the vote would have gone the other way. Not many people want to see their house price plummet, jobs vanish etc - the people in the more affluent areas had much more to lose than the people in the poorer areas.

Re: Scottish Referendum

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:02:59 GMT

The "Yes" vote was gathering momentum until Cameron stepped in with his mega bribe. I suspect that persuaded many waverers to vote "No". If he doesn't fulfill his promises, those people will be very angry indeed. If he does, then taxpayers south of the border are going to be equally incensed. It's a no-win situation!

Wynne

Re: Scottish Referendum

Thomas Johnson — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 17:45:49 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

One of the things I found utterly bewildering was the insistence of the politicians that an independent Scotland couldn't share the pound, and the fuss about passports. Scotland would still share the same monarch.

Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man all share our sovereign, and the pound - and you don't need a passport to visit any of them.

They are'nt part of the UK. They aren't part of the EU. They have their own Parliaments,their own laws, their own taxes (much lower than ours) their own pensions, and their own schools.

I can't see how they differ legally from an independent Scotland (unless in size/population)

[/quote]

Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man aren't independent states, they're crown dependent territories, which means that most of the primary legislation they pass has to go before the Privy Council in London. I can't imagine that those in favour of independence for Scotland would have been happy with that situation.

A lot of Commonwealth countries also have the Queen as head of state, but as far as I am aware none of them use the pound as their currency and all issue their own passports.

Re: Scottish Referendum

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 16:50:00 GMT

Of course, none of them have ever been so daft as to vote in a socialist government - so they won't reduce the value of the pound on international markets.

Wynne

Re: Scottish Referendum

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 16:39:58 GMT

Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man all share our sovereign, and the pound - and you don't need a passport to visit any of them.

They are'nt part of the UK. They aren't part of the EU. They have their own Parliaments,their own laws, their own taxes (much lower than ours) their own pensions, and their own schools.

I can't see how they differ legally from an independent Scotland (unless in size/population)

Wynne

Re: Scottish Referendum

Sammy82 — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 15:45:18 GMT

God help us if the UKIP takes over. I agree with your first sentence though, think he's had it.

I am proud to be a socialist YES voter.

Re: Scottish Referendum

Thomas Johnson — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 15:42:51 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

As long as the "Scottish sweeteners" and English regional devolution don't increase taxes - still one solution would be to save money by abolishing the Blair fan club (House of Lords)

[/quote]

The House of Lords is currently made up of 219 conservative peers, 216 labour peers, 180 crossbench peers, 98 lib dem peers, 26 bishops and 35 other peers. So hardly the Blair fan club.

Re: Scottish Referendum

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 14:47:17 GMT

PS I think "Call me Dave" has had it. His comment on "effing Tories" has convinced me (and many others) that we were right all along in considering him a closet socialist. With any luck that will push several who were on the verge of changing to UKIP to actually do so.

Wynne

Re: Scottish Referendum

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 14:44:31 GMT

As long as the "Scottish sweeteners" and English regional devolution don't increase taxes - still one solution would be to save money by abolishing the Blair fan club (House of Lords)

Wynne

Re: Scottish Referendum

Liz w — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 12:16:53 GMT

Woke up feeling very relieved although after all the excitement this morning feels very anticlimactic. I'm very pleased Cameron talked about increasing powers to the other regions - it may help to heal the rift caused from the Scots'sweeteners. The whole process has certainly been an education for our children - they have learnt how to debate, how to not take promises at face value, how everything good from the state needs to be paid for, and the importance of job availability, prices and the economy.

Re: Scottish Referendum

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:01:28 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

Meantime, I was a bit nonplussed to read the BBC's statement that it (and other broadcasters) cannot report on campaigning while the polls are open: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29256595. It just strikes me that if a broadcaster is going to be biased, surely they'll have just as much influence, maybe more, in the runup to the polls than in the short period they are actually open.

[/quote]

In other countries, there is a 'silence day' before poll day. In Spain we call it 'reflection day', it is a great day, because polititicians don't talk!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_silence

So not all Scottish people voted. Excellent turn out, but not 100%.

Yes + No = 3,619,915, this is 84.59%

100% would've been 4,279,365 and half this would've been 2,139,682

Re: Scottish Referendum

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:43:02 GMT

I'm disappointed that Westminster won't get rid of all the Scots socialists (Labour and SNP) and also worried about the additional burden on taxpayers of Cameron's maxi dev bribes, but also relieved that this result will make Welsh independence less likely. Now that really would be a disaster - permanent socialism AAAAARRRRRHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wynne