Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Christopher Saul — Mon, 08 Sep 2014 19:31:35 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Cat - I will happily join in if I can use an alias and call the people who comment idiots?

I'm not using my own Facebook, or the work one!

Is there a way?

[/quote]

Excellent idea Michael. I'm with you on this one

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

bob lehner — Mon, 08 Sep 2014 11:14:08 GMT

Yes - and I heard a while back that the reason there were no jihadis in Scotland is that the only virgin in the country at the time was Susan Boyle....

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 08 Sep 2014 11:11:42 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

[quote user="bob lehner"]Global war on terrror solved at a stroke.[/quote]

Another idea that I heard was to put it about that the 40 virgins with which all martyrs of the Jihad will be rewarded, are in fact Nuns with bad attitude.

[/quote]

Good point - there's a less PC version that points out that nowhere in the Koran does it specify that the virgins are in fact female.

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Malcolm Ness — Mon, 08 Sep 2014 11:07:04 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]Global war on terrror solved at a stroke.[/quote]

Another idea that I heard was to put it about that the 40 virgins with which all martyrs of the Jihad will be rewarded, are in fact Nuns with bad attitude.

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 08 Sep 2014 10:53:51 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]

Global war on terrror solved at a stroke.

(And what a boost for the homeopaths ....if it works).

[/quote]

Sensational idea! Don't forget that the water must be agitated before use; fortunately the USGS (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eqarchives/year/eqstats.php) estimates that millions of small earthquakes occur daily so this is actually an extremely environmentally friendly method of mixing the Terrorist solution to the required dilution!

See? It's SCIENCE!

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 08 Sep 2014 10:39:18 GMT

Bob, I like it.

Wynne

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

bob lehner — Mon, 08 Sep 2014 10:14:45 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]The Homeopathic jihadists will appear from nowhere and even air strikes will not quieten them down. [/quote]

Well - we could be onto something here.

The Americans dumped Osama bin Laden's body in the Indian Ocean. By now surely all sea water must be classed as a Terrorist Homeopathic Remedy (dissolve one terrorist in water and then dilute by a factor of 10 to the power 50). So all we need to do is send the SAS into all the ISIS/Al Quaeda training camps etc. and pop two teaspoons of sea water into their drinking water supply. On the basis that 'like treats like' all the jihadi fanatics will immediately lay down their arms, put flowers in their beards and start smoking dope - 'Love and Peace, man'.

Global war on terrror solved at a stroke.

(And what a boost for the homeopaths ....if it works).

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

MeeraM — Sun, 07 Sep 2014 15:25:45 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]A few years ago I did manage to get myself banned from an anti-vaccination group on facebook, which was fun [/quote]

I got banned from the "stupid things pet owners say to vets" group because I dared to disagree with a crazy vet nurse that neutering feral male dogs affected population control.

[/quote]

I got banned from that one too for disagreeing with quite possibly the same crazy vet nurse about fluid rates. They asked me to provide evidence I was qualified.....

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Cat Henstridge — Sat, 06 Sep 2014 13:22:36 GMT

Thanks!

I have stopped commenting now but since I tweeted about it a few sceptics are having fun on there!

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Julian Earl — Sat, 06 Sep 2014 11:11:23 GMT

Excellent blog, and I thoroughly support your stance. In response to the last comment about 300+ years, maybe Point out that witches were burnt for more than 300 years, so perhaps we should believe that it was witchcraft not levitation that allowed the dog to walk again?

Sadly, and frustratingly I don't think you'll win this discussion. They accuse us of being small-minded or close-minded, but if your mind is too open, your brain falls out. It is very disturbing that scientifically-trained graduates have no sense of logic or reason when their use of homoeopathy is challenged.

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Rob Davis — Sat, 06 Sep 2014 10:30:31 GMT

[quote user="SilverstarDJ"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

My assumption is that these people were trained to do what they do (be a vet or be a doctor), but not how to evaluate a scientific study properly. I don't know how much the latter is or was part of the curriculum.

[/quote]

That certainly sounds like a compelling reason. Could another one possibly be demand from the public? I.e. there is a niche market for some vets/doctors to exploit to make some money out of it?

Just to keep you informed - evaluating literature (and pharma leaflets) is part of our curriculum as part of "evidence based medicine" lectures, coupled with basic stats (which I still struggle to grasp, I admit) to help us understand how the data was evaluated and not just collected or interpreted. We learnt a whole list of "red flags" in studies that pointed to flaws in one way or another and that anecdotes were on the very bottom of the types of "studies" in terms of quality/trustworthiness. When we did out dissertation in 3rd year we also had to evaluate literature as part of our research to assess its quality. Not sure what it was in the past of course or how it compares at other unis!

[/quote]

I don't remember being taught this specifically (1997 graduate). I wonder if homeopathy is more widely practised amongst older vets? Does anybody know of any young practitioners of homeopathy?

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

No Name — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 22:50:42 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[/quote]

That certainly sounds like a compelling reason. Could another one possibly be demand from the public? I.e. there is a niche market for some vets/doctors to exploit to make some money out of it?

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 19:25:07 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Not too complicated to grasp fortunately! [/quote]

Ah, [sigh] the days of B12 and Betsolan and the placebo effect....

"Say something , do something, give something," preferably a coloured liquid by injection but not more tests ,'cos that means, to joe or josette average that you haven't a clue!

Some of you critics should consider that! Look how successful homeopathy is!

[/quote] Yes that's exactly how it works . Clients are listened to and the body heals itself possibly because they have stopped slapping on loads of lavender oil and keeping it awake chanting at it . That doesn't mean it should be cloaked in pseudo science and charged for .

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Anthony Todd — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 18:29:25 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Not too complicated to grasp fortunately! [/quote]

Ah, [sigh] the days of B12 and Betsolan and the placebo effect....

"Say something , do something, give something," preferably a coloured liquid by injection but not more tests ,'cos that means, to joe or josette average that you haven't a clue!

Some of you critics should consider that! Look how successful homeopathy is!

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 17:41:15 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]Far be it from me to defend Homeopathy, but while it is easy to identify the ignorant and the under-informed amongst the proponents of homeopathy, there are very many vets and doctors who are wholly convinced. I struggle to dismiss them all as idiots though I similarly struggle to see any sense in their beliefs. A paradox.[/quote]

Yes, I struggle with that one too. But then I usually find that those who are wholly convinced seem not to recognise the weakness in anecdote or personal observation, and also haven't read 'Bad Science'.

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Malcolm Ness — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 10:44:34 GMT

Far be it from me to defend Homeopathy, but while it is easy to identify the ignorant and the under-informed amongst the proponents of homeopathy, there are very many vets and doctors who are wholly convinced. I struggle to dismiss them all as idiots though I similarly struggle to see any sense in their beliefs. A paradox.

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 09:21:35 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

[quote user="Braden Collins"]Reminds me of a saying "Never argue with an idiot because they'll take you down to their level then beat you with experience".[/quote]

I think this may possibly be my new favourite ever quote. I am going to fit it in to conversation today.

[/quote]

Another one you'll like: "Idiots have minds like concrete: all mixed up and permanently set!"

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 08:53:35 GMT

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 08:45:32 GMT

[quote user="Braden Collins"]Reminds me of a saying "Never argue with an idiot because they'll take you down to their level then beat you with experience".[/quote]

I think this may possibly be my new favourite ever quote. I am going to fit it in to conversation today.

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Jo Dyer — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 21:34:00 GMT

Time to quote more Tim Minchin I feel

'Science adjusts its views based on what's observed
Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved.
If you show me
That, say, homeopathy works,
Then I will change my mind
I will spin on a fucking dime
I'll be embarrassed as hell,
But I will run through the streets yelling
It's a miracle! Take physics and bin it!
Water has memory!
And whilst its memory of a long lost drop of onion juice is infinite
It somehow forgets all the poo it's had in it!'

From 'Storm'.

Youtube it, you won't be disappointed.

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 19:57:49 GMT

I worked in Hebden Bridge ( nuff said) and we have loads of alternative therapy clients . I feel very strongly that homeopathy is dangerous nonsense that preys on people's ignorance and desperation but I found the best option was to say that I respected their decision to use homeopathy as long as they promised me that they must not feel too embarrassed to come back if natural healing did not resolve the problem or if they found they couldn't cope with their pet getting worse. I have had all sorts of nutters offering alternative therapies for my two sons' autism and there is always a vulnerable part of you that wants a magic answer . My son didn't say a single word until he was six years old . If he had had some weird treatment the week before he spoke then no doubt he would have been a success story for having bat urine poured down his ear or something . Grrr makes me cross

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Cat Henstridge — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 19:43:10 GMT

[quote user="Chris Milligan"]

[quote user="Cat Henstridge"]

So this week I wrote a blog about homeopathy. I though I was quite reasonable but they don't agree!

[/quote]

reason finds itself firmly in the bin with homeopaths. though let's be honest you brought this on yourself :D

It amazes me how much time rational vets waste debating this when they could be talking about real medicine (and I'd like to include myself there). Tim Minchin got it right, to paraphrase him - alternative medicine that has been proven to work is called medicine.

[/quote]

Well yes, against the die hards any argument, rational or not, is fairly pointless. However, I think it is important to try to add some balance to the debate. I think you catch more bees with honey and this was my attempt to get the less hard-line to work with conventional vets (and therefore get their pets some actual treatment) rather than chase them away.

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Bob Russell — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 13:18:59 GMT

[quote user="Chris Milligan"]

[quote user="Cat Henstridge"]

So this week I wrote a blog about homeopathy. I though I was quite reasonable but they don't agree!

[/quote]

reason finds itself firmly in the bin with homeopaths. though let's be honest you brought this on yourself :D

[/quote]

A debate involves a discussion between two or more differing points of view!

This is entertainment and comments about how gullible the general public is!

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Chris Milligan — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 12:38:42 GMT

[quote user="Cat Henstridge"]

So this week I wrote a blog about homeopathy. I though I was quite reasonable but they don't agree!

[/quote]

reason finds itself firmly in the bin with homeopaths. though let's be honest you brought this on yourself :D

Re: Help! I'm being attacked by homeopaths!

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 12:20:08 GMT

1st posting to Micheal

Wynne