If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Utlendigur — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 22:02:54 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]After it went for me and I dodged it, I tried to discuss its behaviour with the owner who was adamant it was my fault for "scaring" it, and refused to listen. I felt sick when it was presented for pts 3 mths later having torn the face from her 3 year old granddaughter- my fault for not persisting enough :(? [/quote]

No, their fault. We can only advise - you gave good advice, the owner refused to listen.

I had a similar case when a woman brought in their new dog for vaccinations - an unsocialised nervy young adult farm collie - with a gaggle of young excitable kids in tow. I gave the dog every chance to settle before I even looked at it and was very slow and gentle, but I queried whether she felt it was the right dog to have around children who would be jumping on it and running round - she thought it was fine. As soon as I touched it, it tried to take my arm off (I was expecting it). I asked her to leave the vaccines that day and have a long hard think about the safety of the dog with children around - and ideally to return it to the farm. They decided to keep the dog. Its behaviour deteriorated to the point they were so scared of it that they wouldn't even put a lead on it at home - we had to visit to PTS

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Rose Unsworth — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 21:23:12 GMT

Simple solution. Health and Safety Regulations insist that all hazards are identified and controls put in place or the hazard eliminated. If the owner cannot muzzle the dog and hold it to allow adequate examination so as to ensure that you have met your obligations then the animal and owner require a divorce from your practice.

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Julie Innes — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 21:14:23 GMT

I agree we have to accept that we are more likely to get bitten than the rest of the general public, but we shouldn't expect to get bitten!

Had similar situation to a pp years ago- GSD that went for me when I turned my back. Luckily I had been keeping an eye on the dog because I felt it might (despite owner constantly telling me it wouldn't bite me- there's a clue there when owner is so insistent!!) After it went for me and I dodged it, I tried to discuss its behaviour with the owner who was adamant it was my fault for "scaring" it, and refused to listen. I felt sick when it was presented for pts 3 mths later having torn the face from her 3 year old granddaughter- my fault for not persisting enough :(?

It's my opinion that a dog trying to bite me is something the owner needs to address. Yes, I'm doing something it possibly isn't comfortable with, but so could someone else, even inadvertently.

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Anthony Todd — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 16:55:13 GMT

Or when you say "what appears to be the trouble?"

And they say "well, you're the vet" as if they're on stage at the London Palladium.....

and you've had a long, stressful day.

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Chris Milligan — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 12:45:20 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"]Equally annoying are the owners who put their cat or small dog on the consult table then step back and watch it repeatedly jump or fall off the table. I had a cat in for vaccination on Friday that I put back on the table seven times - including extracting it from behind the fridge, behind the scales, off a shelf.... despite asking them several times to keep hold of her[/quote]

so glad it's not just me!

The thing I enjoy most of all is when they start talking at you - usually with the most salient pieces of clinical history - when you've got the stethoscope in your ears. It's like they need to fill the silence...

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Chris Milligan — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 12:43:00 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]His male owner stated that all Vets should expect to get bitten as it's part of the job[/quote]

then you should show him the door and tell him to find a vet that's willing to risk their livelihood for the cost of his consult. Don't take any chances, not even once. I was placing a canula for euthanasia in an aggressive GSD with a similarly flippant owner a few months after graduating - I wound up with a head injury, lost 2 years of memory and ended up out of practice for over a year. Thankfully it's all come back and I'm having great fun in practice now but you might not be so lucky.

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Matt Hilary — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 17:18:49 GMT

[quote]Equally annoying are the owners who put their cat or small dog on the consult table then step back and watch it repeatedly jump or fall off the table. I had a cat in for vaccination on Friday that I put back on the table seven times - including extracting it from behind the fridge, behind the scales, off a shelf.... despite asking them several times to keep hold of her because I needed both hands to draw up the vaccine.[/quote]

Glad it's not just me! This gets me more than anything else on a busy day (except for screaming children)...

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Robin Grimmer — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 16:58:14 GMT

Yep! And the first thing that it does if it's an entire male is pee up the wall. Another really annoying thing that seems to keep happening is that I call an owner in - it's fairly obvious which side of the consulting table they should stand, but they insist on standing on my side, where the computer and stool are!

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Bob Russell — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 16:16:58 GMT

Sidetracking the thread! Why do people insist on bringing the dog into the room and immediately let it off the lead? It happens over and over again but thankfully not our naughty dogs (the dog and owners are too well trained for that!). Just makes it more stressful for the timid dogs.

I let cats wander round the room unless they are needed on the table that very second.

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Utlendigur — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 20:01:48 GMT

[quote user="Nicola M"]The number of owners who walk into the consult room and first thing they do is let the dog off the lead or take its collar off.[/quote]

Equally annoying are the owners who put their cat or small dog on the consult table then step back and watch it repeatedly jump or fall off the table. I had a cat in for vaccination on Friday that I put back on the table seven times - including extracting it from behind the fridge, behind the scales, off a shelf.... despite asking them several times to keep hold of her because I needed both hands to draw up the vaccine. Or asking the owners of a puppy to "make sure he doesn't fall off the table" then hearing a thump as I was rummaging for a vaccine in the fridge and seeing it sprawled on the floor.

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Nicola Cole — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 19:50:04 GMT

[quote user="Richard Carter"]

Owner - well no-one was thinking this to be a vicious dog so was on the other side of the room

[/quote] Got to say, it always annoys me when owners do this (if I have read this correctly!)-every dog should be at least on a lead because you can never 100% know if a dog will do anything. If the owner doesn't even have hold of the end of the lead, even if a dog gives you a warning you may not beable to do anything about it-especially if you get lunged at across the room! The number of owners who walk into the consult room and first thing they do is let the dog off the lead or take its collar off....I'm all for allowing a dog to get comfortable with its surroundings, and obviously the vast majority of dogs will just have a sniff around and a play, but it gives you very little chance if it then decides it's not happy with the surroundings!

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Thomas Johnson — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 12:04:11 GMT

I have only had one proper dog bite in the 11 years since I graduated, a GSD that was known to be nervous so I went out to the car park to chat to the owner, while I was chatting to the owner the dog seemed quite relaxed and started to sniff my hand, so I left my hand where it was, made sure I wasn't making eye contact with the dog, it then bit my wrist, a deep skin wound, but thankfully no major damage done. Should I have predicted it, probably, but I didn't see any warning signs.

I have no problem telling clients to muzzle dogs if I have concerns about them, and thankfully I've never had anyone object.

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Richard Carter — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 11:38:09 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"] certainly should have seen it coming each time.[/quote] my worst bite was from a GSD where I had finished the exam, finished the treatment, turned away to wash hands and was got from behind in the hand - when I could see the tendons realised what had happened. Owner - well no-one was thinking this to be a vicious dog so was on the other side of the room but then I had just stuck a few needles into him and touched him in areas no-one else had ever touched him (well presumably anyway) So did I expect it - no, should I have - probably, was it serious - yes. Will it happen again - probably, who is at fault - well he is a dog with big teeth, be careful.

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Julian Earl — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 19:36:19 GMT

Answer to trhe original question is no. But you should expect dogs to go for you, you must learn how to read a dog's behaviour, and if there is any possibility of being bitten, muzzle the dog, simple. Likewise, you expect cows to kick, but you take precautions [= xylazine usually!] . If the horse owner says their horse won't kick, ask them to stand between you and the horse's hindfeet. Better that Offended clients go to another vet than you go to hospital.I've worked with dogsnow for 45 years and have been bitten about four times, every time I could have avoided it to be honest, and certainly should have seen it coming each time.

HTH

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 09:08:11 GMT

Bob I shouldn't laugh at that - but I did

Wynne

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Busybee — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 22:17:16 GMT

Agree with pretty much everything that's been said so far.

We all see (more than) our fair share of these clients, and even after only 3 years in practice, I'm more than happy to refuse to examine their animal if they don't follow my rules. If I get bitten on my hand, it could endanger my ability to do my job - my colleague came very close to this after a particularly nasty bite a couple of years ago.

The worst ones are the ones that find it funny. I had one lady recently who was unable to muzzle her young JRT who kept lunging at me and my nurse, which she thought was hilarious. I told her to go away and I would see her and the dog when she could get a muzzle on it. She at least had the decency to look shocked at that, and my receptionist later told me she had come out looking quite sheepish and mumbled that she had been 'thoroughly told off' by the young vet. I did see her and the dog again (muzzled) and she apologised. The dog however, was a badly behaved as ever....

Getting bitten, scratched, kicked, squashed, covered in s**t are all hazards of the job, yes, but it doesn't mean we should expect them to happen as in the majority of cases, they are easily avoidable.

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Nicola Cole — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:18:49 GMT

[quote user="james herriot lied"]

Quite a few years ago, I got bitten during an otherwise routine booster consult.

Owner: oh, he's never done that before

Me: Yes, he has

Owner (quite testify): No he hasn't, why would you say that?

... ....

Fortunately my boss backed me up.....

[/quote] My favourite (!) one of these was a dog that presented for a ghc because he's an old dog. The dog growled, owner says 'oh he's never done that before', followed by dog lunging at me...'oh, he's never done that before' so was promptly muzzled (withering look from owner). Examining and questioning owner about him-she finally admits that the reason for the consult is because he has started trying to bite everyone and even she can't move him off the sofa without dodging his teeth!

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Miriam Lodewyks — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 19:44:46 GMT

We have a GSD at our practice who requires sedation to administer his KC vaccine every year. He's super, super anxious and just throws himself about uncontrollably when any of our staff try to even touch him. Luckily the owner is resigned to it, but I hate to think what we'd do if it ever gets ill. We also have a few dogs that are simply not allowed into the practice without a muzzle on. If they refuse, we icily refuse to treat. My health and that of the staff is more important than the client's feeling, surely?

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

bob lehner — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 18:52:57 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]then the plumber said, 'well at least I've never heard of a plumber whose drowned'. [/quote]

The guy that came to fix our septic tank last year told me that he had once been leaning so far into one to reach a pipe that he'd actually toppled right in - head first. Luckily his mate hauled him out - otherwise death by drowning might have ensued. I suspect his missus wasn't too pleased to see him that evening.

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Braden Collins — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 18:05:09 GMT

I'm more than happy to walk away from an animal if I can't handle it safely. I busted my elbow as a new grad when preg testing station cattle in poor facilities. 6 weeks injured teaches you it's not worth the risk. I even walked away from a calving cow once when it was too aggressive to get into the crush, and the yards had barbed wire on 3 sides so a quick bail-out was impossible (I did try for an hour to get it into the crush from outside the yard for over an hour. My boss at the time backed that decision.

I no longer politely ask people if I can muzzle their pet. I simply state I'm going to get a muzzle and it gets done. Occasionally they don't look too happy about it but I don't have anyone refuse.

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:37:58 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]So I suppose electricians expect to get electrocuted occasionally then....[/quote]This sounds like its going to be an Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman joke.

When we were having some renovations the electrician, gas fitter and plumber were sitting in our half constructed kitchen having a cup of tea and the electrician recounted a tale of a colleague who electrocuted himself, the gas fitter told us of one who'd blown himself and the house up, then the plumber said, 'well at least I've never heard of a plumber whose drowned'. You couldn't make it up!

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Malcolm Ness — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:34:20 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]So I suppose electricians expect to get electrocuted occasionally then....[/quote]

Perhaps just the once ..... if they do it properly!

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Glen McIntosh — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:25:45 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]What a tw*t. What a w*****.[/quote]

Yeah. What Evelyn said.

Before I examine any dog, I ask the owner: Is he/she friendly?

Because I am working in Hong Kong, this gets translated in Chinese by the translator as "Does it bite?". The chinese are nothing if not direct.

The answer, translated back into english is, of course, is the opposite to the correct answer to the question that I asked. No, (he doesn't bite) is interpreted by me as no, he is not friendly, and vice versa. Which led to a bit of confusion for the first few months or so until I worked out what was being said, and it still occasionally throws me.

If the owner ultimately says that, no, it is not friendly, it gets a muzzle or some other device (an elizabethan collar works very well for small dogs with no nose - we see a lot of these). If the owner is equivocal, it gets a muzzle or some other device. If the owner says yes it is friendly, but then the dog looks sideways at me or gives any other indication, then it gets a muzzle or some other device.

Getting bitten is no fun, and I will do everything I can to prevent it happening to myself or support staff. I really don't care what the client thinks.

I have yet to meet any chinese client who protests in any significant way about my decision to muzzle the dog. Yet in the UK (and Australia), those w*****s that object and say that I am incompetent etc, because I cannot handle their dog, were a little too frequent for my liking. If this type of client does not agree to gentle persuasion about muzzling etc, and if they start to make significant objections despite reasonable requests on my part, my approach has long been, and will remain, that if you don't like it, then you really should seek alternative veterinary care, because nothing else is happening in my consulting room until your dog can be properly restrained.

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:57:55 GMT

So I suppose electricians expect to get electrocuted occasionally then....

Just because something is a hazard of the job doesn't mean you shouldn't do everything you can to prevent it!

These type of people are morons, but worse, they present a significant health hazard for you and your staff. Do the same as you would with all other H+S dangers - get rid of it!

Re: If you are a Vet you should expect to get bitten.....

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:02:20 GMT

I'm with Micheal. Legally the responsibility for ensuring a safe consultation is the veterinary surgeons. Therefore, so is the right to demand proper restraint, or refuse to treat (unless a genuine emergency) The occasional unforeseen accident is one of the hazards of the job. Clients like this are not - so ditch them.

Wynne