How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 07 Aug 2014 20:43:01 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Chill out folks.[/quote]

No sweat.

I just think it's weird that anybody should buy, at considerable expense, a "system" that's patently less than ideal, and make themselves slaves to it.

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 07 Aug 2014 19:34:42 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Any "system" which dictates that the client must remain on the premises until the clinical notes are completed is a lousy system and should be changed or ignored.[/quote]I can't help but think this is a storm in a teacup. The vet takes a finite time to complete the clinical notes. So either he/she does it while consulting and turns his back on the client, completes them while the client waits in the consulting room, while the client waits at reception/in the waiting room, or price and release the record and write up the history after they have finished their session and may have forgotten something. I can see merits and faults in all of these but some people seem to get their knickers in a knot about it.

Chill out folks.

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 07 Aug 2014 18:51:14 GMT

[quote user="SilverstarDJ"]

At the current practise I am at, there is a similar PMS that you describe.

Is it possible for the vet to ask the owners to go to reception whilst he/she writes a very, very brief note on the system and does the invoicing before releasing to reception so the owners can pay up, and then go back and edit the brief clinical notes in order to add more specific detail ? This would mean the client shouldn't be waiting too long as invoicing shouldn't take too long to do, rather I assume writing up the clinical notes may take a longer.

[/quote]

Any "system" which dictates that the client must remain on the premises until the clinical notes are completed is a lousy system and should be changed or ignored.

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

Anthony Todd — Thu, 07 Aug 2014 18:45:10 GMT

Recommend any budding surgeon reads "Confessions of a Surgeon" Paul Ruggieri recommended to me by one of the best Vet surgeons I knew.

[ easy search; Amazon has it]

eg.

"Difference between a good and average surgeon is 10%."

10% less trauma, 10% less time, 10% less etc......

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

No Name — Thu, 07 Aug 2014 18:30:13 GMT

At the current practise I am at, there is a similar PMS that you describe.

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

Thomas Johnson — Thu, 07 Aug 2014 14:13:21 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]Alternatively, when the consultation is over they should ask the client to take a seat in reception, and tell the client that the receptionist will call them to the desk when the notes are through.[/quote]

There is little chance of this young man considering anyone else. He is determined to become a surgeon rather than a fully rounded GP.

[/quote]

Fair enough! If he's a competent surgeon I hope he gets on with specialising as soon as possible

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

Mark Hedberg — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 22:12:15 GMT

Genius. :)

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

Emily Nightingale — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 20:51:50 GMT

My father (a seasoned GP of 25+ years) said once

Surgeons know nothing, but can do anything

Neurologists know everything but can do nothing.

Pathologists know everything, can do everything... but it's too late

There were a few other medical disciplines mentioned but these are the ones I could remember..

Im tempted to add in

Veterinary surgeons know everything, can do everything, for everything...everyday! (ho hum)

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

J G Wray — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 18:24:15 GMT

There is little chance of this young man considering anyone else. He is determined to become a surgeon rather than a fully rounded GP.

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

mariette asselbergs — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 18:06:26 GMT

And have a tea dispenser there and serve very HOT tea. That is what the Mercedes garage does...

Mariette

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

Thomas Johnson — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 11:47:59 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

I gently asked if they'd ever done the "client journey and reception experience" and watched as the client stood in reception like a lemon and the receptionist had to keep apologising because they were "just waiting for the notes to come through" with their oft practiced fixed, sh*teating grin. All because of their routine in consult. I then asked if they had considered changing their consultation routine. They looked at me as if I were mad. I knew then they were perfect as in perfect to become a surgeon.

[/quote]

Alternatively, when the consultation is over they should ask the client to take a seat in reception, and tell the client that the receptionist will call them to the desk when the notes are through.

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:36:33 GMT

Got it wrong again!

Wynne

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:32:39 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

What does pre-menstral syndrome have to do with it? Oh I see,you mean practice management system!

Wynne

[/quote]How do you know I mean practice management system, my PMS could be why I'm grumpy. Don't be so sexist!

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:53:09 GMT

What does pre-menstral syndrome have to do with it? Oh I see,you mean practice management system!

Wynne

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:48:19 GMT

As someone with a reputation locally as being the best vet but with a poor bedside manner I empathise with your colleague and think you're being rather harsh. To the contrary there are vets around me with a wonderful bedside manner but are shit clinicians. They may see more clients but I know which way round I'm happier being.

Fortunately my PMS does allow me to complete the clinical notes while reception completes dispensing and charging but that doesn't mean I dispense with client pleasantries completely, I'm not a total Troll!

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

John Flynn — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:32:27 GMT

I must confess to having had very little patience with poorly thought out PMS's myself, though I suspect that this was often the use of the system rather than an inherent flaw in software.

Not being able to write up my notes after pricing the consult would have irked me also, indeed I'd be very surprised that this is not possible on any modern system - perhaps your friend need only learn about the system a little more and his sense of frustration would be lessened?

I like to be able to look a client in the eye during consults and give the impression that I'm giving them my undivided attention - may just be my typing skills and lack of multi-tasking, but I don't feel I'm well-suited to appearing engaged and interested while typing my thoughts on a keyboard.

As an aside, my other consulting frustration was when locuming in clinics that "shared" stuff between rooms - the experience of being left in the consulting room alone, while the vet trundles off for the umpteenth time that day to interrupt his colleagues and see which of the other 4 consult rooms is housing the (presumably gold-plated) nail clippers, must be a little dry for clients.

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:11:02 GMT

Ten stars to JGW for that (see, I'm scrupulously fair, even to people from Basingstoke).

I'm astonished at the idea of letting the electronic Practice Management System dictate the way you work. Is this common? Why not change the PMS? Or ignore it?

However I know at least one surgeon who always discharges the patients personally, always shows and explains the medicines personally, always accompanies the client to the front desk and occasionally even opens the front door for them. He wouldn't know a KPI from a KFC though.

Re: How do you know when a vet is truly cut out to be a surgeon?

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 09:51:10 GMT

At least that type would have no problem keeping to appointment times "Here's your tablets. Goodbye. Next"

Wynne