Microchip and Passport.

Re: Microchip and Passport.

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 01:56:59 GMT

[quote user="James Laidlaw"]Well, apart from section 1 in the passport which is "owner" details...

[/quote]

As far as I can remember from my OV training, the only bits that are legally important are the microchip number and rabies vaccination details with OV stamp. The other parts, such as coat colour/owner etc aren't as important.

Re: Microchip and Passport.

Rob Loxley — Sun, 27 Jul 2014 00:55:53 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]sole purpose of the passport is to connect an animal with its vaccine status in a reliable way. It is not proof of ownership[/quote]

neither is a microchip, but we had an animal in a known ownership dispute case presented with a request to be chipped, for such 'devious' reason; these things do happen!

Re: Microchip and Passport.

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 18:10:27 GMT

The sole purpose of the passport is to connect an animal with its vaccine status in a reliable way. It is not proof of ownership, and has no connection with any registration of the chip details. The 'owner section at the very front is not something you have to be a vet to fill in, indeed owners can make their own amendments to this section.

Re: Microchip and Passport.

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 13:48:15 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]could you not issue the passport, entering the previous owner [/quote]

Is the actual owner even relevant? All you are doing is certifying that a certain dog, identified by a certain microchip, has been vaccinated etc.

Nothing to do with the "owner" or "presenter" of the animal to you?

[/quote]

No, the actual owner is irrelevant to the passport, but you have to enter somebody – even Mr. Michael Mouse – on the first page, and the original poster was worried that this passport might be used as "evidence" in some future ownership dispute. I'd be worried for the same reason – dog owners and "owners" can be pretty devious and horrible sometimes.

Re: Microchip and Passport.

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 10:37:42 GMT

So, lets say my neighbour is ill so I look after his dog. I go to France for the summer in my caravan (neither point is true). I need to get a passport for the dog. Who's name goes down as 'owner'? Is there a problem me taking the dog with me?

I frequently see passports with new owner details or new addresses written in the front - by themselves. I've never updated that section. No need to stamp it.

Re: Microchip and Passport.

James Laidlaw — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 09:20:32 GMT

Well, apart from section 1 in the passport which is "owner" details...

Re: Microchip and Passport.

Anthony Todd — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 08:56:54 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]could you not issue the passport, entering the previous owner [/quote]

Is the actual owner even relevant? All you are doing is certifying that a certain dog, identified by a certain microchip, has been vaccinated etc.

Nothing to do with the "owner" or "presenter" of the animal to you?

Re: Microchip and Passport.

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 23:20:38 GMT

[quote user="GrooveJet"]

[quote user="robloxley"]

I guess the issue might be if there is an ownership dispute and you issue an official document stating the owner as a person different to that the microchip is registered to, and the new keeper tried to use that as proof of ownership in a dispute.

[/quote]

This was really the issue I was thinking about...

I spoke to the PETS Scheme and they confirmed that their only concern is that the animal's microchip correlates with the passport issues and the Rabies vaccine that was given.

In this case I'm fairly sure it's a legitimate re-homing case, and all parties just haven't bothered to change the details at Anibase, but you just never know...

It's unlikely but I'd hate to get mixed up in an owner dispute because they're using a passport as a "legal" document with MY signature on it. I can do without that headache!

[/quote]

Thinking slightly sideways here... could you not issue the passport, entering the previous owner (i.e. the one the microchip is registered to) as owner? Everything correct there, and then the new (i.e. present) owner can change the name and address on the first page if they want to – nobody has to countersign or endorse the alteration.

Re: Microchip and Passport.

Miriam Lodewyks — Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:00:17 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]

[/quote]

This was really the issue I was thinking about...

I spoke to the PETS Scheme and they confirmed that their only concern is that the animal's microchip correlates with the passport issues and the Rabies vaccine that was given.

In this case I'm fairly sure it's a legitimate re-homing case, and all parties just haven't bothered to change the details at Anibase, but you just never know...

It's unlikely but I'd hate to get mixed up in an owner dispute because they're using a passport as a "legal" document with MY signature on it. I can do without that headache!

Re: Microchip and Passport.

Rob Loxley — Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:53:03 GMT

Where we have had a known ownership dispute over a dog and one party asked us to chip the dog (almost certainly to strengthen their case) both RCVS and VDS guidance was not to chip the animal until the dispute was resolved. This does not however seem to be the case here.

Certainly you should not leave the owner details blank (see new RCVS guidance re vaccination cards). Can you get hold of the person on the microchip record to confirm the story you are being told is correct? If so, I would issue in the name of the new owner and make a note re the discrepancy with the chip, and leave the new keeper to sort the microchip registration out.

Re: Microchip and Passport.

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 23 Jul 2014 09:35:05 GMT

If you are concerned it may be a good idea for peace of mind to just confirm this with DEFRA but otherwise I agree with Sammy. There is no onus on proof of ownership with a passport, it 'belongs' to the animal, so long as the chip in the passport conforms to one in the animal it doesn't matter if the name/address says Father Christmas c/o North Pole. Indeed there are several lines on the page to change address - this does not have to be authorised.

Re: Microchip and Passport.

Niall Taylor — Wed, 23 Jul 2014 07:26:05 GMT

[quote user="Sammy82"]Thinking the same here, a passport is to certify that the dog with this microchip had the vaccine/treatmeant, not as proof of ownership. It doesn't even have to be registered with Anibase etc[/quote]

Exactly - a passport is to identify the dog and to certify the dog with that chip number has been rabies vacc'd etc. Whether the dog is registered to the person named on the passport is an irrelevance. There is no reason at all not to issue the passport - why make life any more difficult and complicated for you and the owner than it has to be?

Niall

Re: Microchip and Passport.

Sammy82 — Tue, 22 Jul 2014 23:31:43 GMT

Thinking the same here, a passport is to certify that the dog with this microchip had the vaccine/treatmeant, not as proof of ownership. It doesn't even have to be registered with Anibase etc. I never registered the chips with anibase when people from Poland/Spain etc were taking the dog to their home country for good 3 weeks later, but advised them to register the chip with a database in their country in case the dog runs away later. IMO microchips as identification for Import/Export purposes and Microchips being used as help to identify lost dogs are two completely different kettle of fish.

Nevertheless it would be advisable to change the Anibase details in case the dog gets lost, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the passport.

Just one thought, is the owner information even mandatory on the passport?

Re: Microchip and Passport.

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 22 Jul 2014 23:14:45 GMT

Can anyone tell me a reason why not to issue a passport based on the current chip number?

Do you strictly need to own the dog to get a passport?

Policing dog ownership is not my job. I don't check existing chips with the database before issuing a normal passport. Do you?

Re: Microchip and Passport.

rjhvet — Tue, 22 Jul 2014 23:13:01 GMT

get owners to contact anibase and change details.

Re: Microchip and Passport.

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 22 Jul 2014 21:16:09 GMT

I wouldn't issue a passport If the previous owner was an acquaintance then put the onus on them to get the dog properly registered. I had a similar case a month ago, and asked the client to sort out his side of the paperwork. A reply from David Mills would be interesting as rehoming chipped dogs where the owner can't be traced must have occurred in an RSPCA siyuation. Neil (My AHVLA past showing here, risk, don't even talk about it!!)