RVC endorsing Yumove.

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

John Howie — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:12:00 GMT

Hi Bob. Looks like our posts crossed in the ether. Clearly with the results as they are, we're keen to share them as soon as we can! The paper is in preparation for submission at the moment, so we hope to be in a position to share the publication in the next few months.

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

Bob Russell — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:05:35 GMT

I think we would all be very interested in the results of the study. When is it going to be available (or if it is already, where?)?

Did seem strange that the RVC logo would be used for advertising. Mystery solved!

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

John Howie — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:05:10 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Perhaps one for Arlo to do a little research on!

A good opportunity for lintbells Ltd to reach a big veterinary audience. Where on earth is the paper?

[/quote]

For clarity the clinical study has been run by RVC over the last 2.5 years, investigating the effect of the Lintbells joint supplement and was commissioned by Lintbells. The successful conclusion of the study was announced at BSAVA Congress in April.

The study itself is a double blind, placebo controlled crossover study including the use of activity monitors to provide objective activity data over a 6 week period. The RVC are currently preparing the paper for publication and we would expect to be able to share the results in the coming months. Once the publication is available, we will happily share those results and the publication details with the veterinary profession.

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

John Howie — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 10:59:35 GMT

Thank you to Arlo for inviting me to post a response to this thread. I am one of the Co-Founders of Lintbells and responsible for liaising with RVC on the Yumove study. I would like to re-iterate that Lintbells did not and would not place an advertorial of the nature shown in Dog World. This was done without any knowledge on the part of or approval from either Lintbells or RVC.

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 16:55:25 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]Wasn't he in "Are You Being Served?"???[/quote]

I thought that was Mr Lintballs.

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

Malcolm Ness — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 16:18:36 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]'Mr Lintbells' [/quote]

Wasn't he in "Are You Being Served?"???

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

Bob Russell — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 16:09:02 GMT

Oh what power we have posting on VetSurgeon!

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 16:02:06 GMT

And there was me having a cynical thought that someone had complained to the VMD about "claims" for nutraceutical products and hence the quick response...

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 15:47:34 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Crikey, things move fast when things appear on this forum. Just had a telephone call from a nice chap at Lintbells[/quote]

Followed by another call from someone at Dog World ringing to fall on their sword! Not that they needed to, and certainly not in front of me, still it does show 'Mr Lintbells' wasn't making it up!

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 14:51:27 GMT

Crikey, things move fast when things appear on this forum. Just had a telephone call from a nice chap at Lintbells who told me that what actually happened here is that the company sent out a press release, and Dog World decided (presumably thinking they were doing the company a favour) to publish it as an advertorial, with logos etc., without asking anyone. So this is a mistake by Dog World.

'Mr Lintbells' told me they were really unhappy about it, and the MD (who is out today) is preparing a post for the forum.

I think there'll also be more info about the study coming up soon, too.

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

Bob Russell — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 12:40:17 GMT

Perhaps one for Arlo to do a little research on!

A good opportunity for lintbells Ltd to reach a big veterinary audience. Where on earth is the paper?

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

Bob Russell — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 12:29:01 GMT

From the RVC Facebook page:

"Could your dog be the next 'Yumove dog'? Our advertising agency are currently selecting a model for our next Yumove advertising campaign, so we thought we'd contact our friends on Facebook to see if there are any budding celebrities out there.

We are looking for a dog that is obedient, will be controllable and respond to commands on an open field for a photoshoot and has that star quality! And you will need to be able to travel to Henley on Thames in Buckinghamshire for the photoshoot on Oct 8th.

In order to be shortlisted as a candidate, please post a pic of your dog on our wall, along with a few words about how your dog will fit the role and why we should choose them. Alternatively you can email Kris in our marketing team at info@lintbells.com.

We can't guarantee that we can respond to every nomination, and ultimately the creative director at the agency will make the final choice on which dog best suits the campaign, but we'd love it if one of our customers could feature in the campaign. So please send us your nominations if you think your dog is the one and you can make it to the photo shoot on October 8th.

We look forward to seeing your dogs!"

Still unable to find the paper but will continue to look! Still think it is a slippery slope for independent research.

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 08:43:39 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Banged to rights then.[/quote]

Quite surprised to see Matthew (or any RVC representative) quoting within the context of an advertorial. Very, very, very surprised to see the logo attached as well. I wonder whether the RVC or MP gave this their blessing, or whether it was done without their full understanding / agreement.

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]I imagine the manufacturers of other such nutriceuticals will not be over-impressed either.[/quote]

I would have thought that most would just accept that Lintbells was one step ahead.

[quote user="Jo Dyer"]Does anyone have a reference for the actual clinical trial? I can't find one. The study was a) sponsored by the company that produces the supplement, b) no blinding was referred to ie did the owners and clinicians know what they were giving the dogs c) there are many good treatments for osteoarthritis so the supplements should be tested against them, not against placebo, and d) how significant is 'increased mobility in the home environment' as a clinical outcome anyway. You can tell I'm reading 'Trick or Treatment ' by Simon Singh at the moment.....[/quote]

This is really the point, surely.

I haven't read Trick or Treatment, but suspect it should be part of the school curriculum, along with Bad Science.

I'm not sure that I'm against endorsements per se. But I do think it should be a legal requirement to reference claims made in an advert / advertorial, and for any study referenced to be in the public domain, available to anyone free of charge.

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

Jo Dyer — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 18:38:58 GMT

Does anyone have a reference for the actual clinical trial? I can't find one. The study was a) sponsored by the company that produces the supplement, b) no blinding was referred to ie did the owners and clinicians know what they were giving the dogs c) there are many good treatments for osteoarthritis so the supplements should be tested against them, not against placebo, and d) how significant is 'increased mobility in the home environment' as a clinical outcome anyway. You can tell I'm reading 'Trick or Treatment ' by Simon Singh at the moment.....

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 12:39:00 GMT

Banged to rights then. I wonder if Matthew Pead ever visits this esteemed forum then maybe he could comment. I imagine the manufacturers of other such nutriceuticals will not be over-impressed either.

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

Bob Russell — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 12:36:47 GMT

Not the best scan but the RVC logo is clearly displayed at the top of the advert.

The bank manager would dearly love these products to work and be shown to work by independent research and this may actually qualify. I have waited years to see any research that really proves the benefit but until now most seems to involve bucketloads of bias!

Time to dig around for the actual research but the RVC (nor any other vet school) should not be endorsing commercial products IMO.

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

Bob Russell — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 12:31:08 GMT

Re: RVC endorsing Yumove.

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 10:44:42 GMT

Dog World would not grace my premises, I've not seen the advert and not heard of Yumove. However I had a quick Google search for Yumove and can see nothing in it that is not in several other well known joint supplements and no RVC endorsement on their website. Given that the jury is still out on the efficacy of these products and the reliability of studies it does seem a bit odd if it is true. There have however been past incidents of endorsements being falsely attributed so I wouldn't gun for the RVC just yet.