RCVS Retention Fee

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

Gareth C. — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 21:19:08 GMT

The vds now do reduced cover for part time workers based on 0 to 50, 50-100, 100-150 days ( or thereabouts) worked per year. But they can calibrate to risk over days worked whereas the rcvs is a flat "entry fee". Discus....!

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

james herriot lied — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 21:14:52 GMT

Richard, your posts have been one of the few positives coming out of the RCVS for a couple of years now - spell any way you wish.

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 19:29:08 GMT

My only trip before the PIC (to date) was due to a complaint about wrong advice given by my assistant. I handled the initial client contact and therefore my name was on the RCVS Complaint letter.

Oh....and the case didn't get past PIC as the client was lying!

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

Richard Stephenson — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 18:56:13 GMT

[quote user="james herriot lied"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

I do hope you mean principals.

[/quote]

< thank you>

I thought I was the only one, but Richard's answers are generally so straight that one doesn't like to mention it.

[/quote]

Yes I wondered if I'd used the correct spelling and then noted that J Wray had used the same one - and if nothing else he's usually right on grammar!! However as a matter of principle I stand corrected by one of the forums Principals!

Yours,

Richard S.

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

james herriot lied — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 18:51:40 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

I do hope you mean principals.

[/quote]

< thank you>

I thought I was the only one, but Richard's answers are generally so straight that one doesn't like to mention it.

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 10:47:37 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]

[quote user="Richard Stephenson"]The groups who are in receipt of most complaints are UK qualified MEN over 45 years of age. This is probably as principles of practices still tend to fall into that group.[/quote]

I don't quite understand this deduction. RCVS regulates individuals and complaints in respect of serious professional misconduct drill down to an individual's behaviour. So why would practice principles be more likely than employees to have perpetrated an act resulting in complaint?

[/quote]

I do hope you mean principals.

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

Bob Russell — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 09:57:20 GMT

[quote user="Richard Stephenson"]

[quote user="J G Wray"]So why would practice principles be more likely than employees to have perpetrated an act resulting in complaint?[/quote]

The public often direct their complaint about a practice in general to its principle OR the principle of a practice may well be the person who deals with complaints in that practice. Being the recipient of a complaint doesn't necessarily imply any malfeasance. There still seem to be a goodly number of old fashioned bosses out there who honourably stand in the firing line when their staff are complained about!

Yours,

Richard S

[/quote]

It is called 'the buck stops here!'.

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

Richard Stephenson — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 08:26:49 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]So why would practice principles be more likely than employees to have perpetrated an act resulting in complaint?[/quote]

The public often direct their complaint about a practice in general to its principal OR the principal of a practice may well be the person who deals with complaints in that practice. Being the recipient of a complaint doesn't necessarily imply any malfeasance. There still seem to be a goodly number of old fashioned bosses out there who honourably stand in the firing line when their staff are complained about!

Yours,

Richard S

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

J G Wray — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 07:30:39 GMT

[quote user="Liz white"]At present we must pay £500-600 for VDs and RCVS before we get anything back - that's a lot of Saturday mornings.[/quote]

Hmmmm. In my business, which employs people, we don't get "anything back" i.e. profit until the last few days of a month. In other words, I and my colleagues work 3 and a bit weeks a month 5 1/2 days a week just to keep the practice open. All businesses have costs that have to be paid first. All employment has costs e.g. NI and tax. There's no news here.

JGW

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

Liz w — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 06:44:26 GMT

[quote user="Nicola M"]I'm not sure I agree with a decreased retention fee for part time workers-we all get the same benefits from the fee(primarily the ability to practice in the UK!) so why should there be a reduction? P.s. Before anyone asks I only work part time...

[/quote] My feelings are that the higher the price it is to be allowed to work, the more people are going to opt out altogether for a few years ( eg if they have children) rather than pay the fees and pick up odd bits of work where they can. It's s lot harder getting back to work if you've been completely out the loop. At present we must pay £500-600 for VDs and RCVS before we get anything back - that's a lot of Saturday mornings.

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

Nicola Cole — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 21:31:06 GMT

I'm not sure I agree with a decreased retention fee for part time workers-we all get the same benefits from the fee(primarily the ability to practice in the UK!) so why should there be a reduction? P.s. Before anyone asks I only work part time...

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

Richard Stephenson — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 21:10:50 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]Do part time (and ECC workers) generate more complaints (and therefore more expenditure) for the RCVS?[/quote]

Dear David,

I don't think we have data concerning part time workers as the RCVS doesn't know if members are in full or part time employment and 'part time' can mean lots of different things. What I can tell you is that non UK European Union graduates are LESS represented in complaint data than their number on the register would suggest. That may well surprise as one might expect that non native English speakers would have more communication related complaints. The fact of the matter is that is simply not borne out by the RCVS statistics.

The groups who are in receipt of most complaints are UK qualified MEN over 45 years of age. This is probably as principals of practices still tend to fall into that group. The other at risk group is 'old' commonwealth graduates namely New Zealand, Australian and South African who are strongly over represented in complaint data.

So I guess MALE, over 45 South African is the highest risk group!!

Yours,

Richard S.

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

David Mills — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 20:54:00 GMT

Do part time (and ECC workers) generate more complaints (and therefore more expenditure) for the RCVS?

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

Richard Stephenson — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 13:48:35 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]I do note that RCVS average staff costs (wages/ pensions) increased by over 8% just from 2012 to 2013, according to the latest report.[/quote]

Yes I should point out that there was an increase in staffing levels from the previous year (which were at a historically low level) so you shouldn't read that as RCVS staff got an 8% pay rise!

However the central point you are making is unfortunately correct. The SPVS employment / wage survey shows that veterinary wages are not rising and that for some groups (new graduates) are falling.

To a certain extent this is simple market economics. As the number of graduates from all over Europe entering the UK job market keeps rising there will be a downwards pressure on remuneration. 20 years ago practices found it hard to recruit - now they may be inundated with applications. It still appears that there is a shortage of experienced graduates however.

Yours,

Richard

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

Rob Loxley — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 09:55:11 GMT

[quote user="Richard Stephenson"]So the net effect is that you are paying around 14% less than you were 5 years ago (approx.)[/quote]

Are we all earning 14% more than 5 years ago?

I do note that RCVS average staff costs (wages/ pensions) increased by over 8% just from 2012 to 2013, according to the latest report.

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

Allie Woodward — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 18:16:14 GMT

Thank you for your prompt and helpful response. I would say however that I would be surprised if salaries have gone up by that proportion. My pay rate has been almost the same for the past 7 years. I am always just grateful to have a job in this economic climate.

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 18:15:41 GMT

A reduced fee would never work for locum workers because they don't know until some time after their year end what their earnings would be.

So what if you are on a part time contract and earn £28,000, so claim the lower fee, and then pick up a few NV shifts for extra money, pushing you over the threshold - who's going to check up on that?

Where do you set the limit?

What about a new grad paid £25,000, but getting benefits in kind taking the package to £30,000+ - do they pay the reduced rate or not?

Ultimately the same fee for everyone is fair. Less than a pound per day to practice as a veterinary surgeon is not that much in the grand scheme of things. I've not seen a convincing argument for the extra hassle and admin to save a few low earners a few pounds.

Maybe better if they allowed you to pay monthly? I remember someone saying there is an issue with the VSA and that. What if the RCVS tasked a company to 'loan' you the retention fee and you pay off the 'loan' with monthly payments (obviously would be more costly over the year).

Re: RCVS Retention Fee

Richard Stephenson — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 15:49:41 GMT

[quote user="Allie Woodward"]With the increase in new graduates over the past few years I would personally be expecting the retention fee to be going down. [/quote]

Dear Allie,

You are of course right - the number of members has been increasing and it is this that has enabled Council to hold the retention fee at the same level - actually for six of the last seven years. However as there has been considerable general inflation over the years the fee should stand at £345 per year if it had just kept parity with the cost of living. So the net effect is that you are paying around 14% less than you were 5 years ago (approx.)

[quote user="Allie Woodward"]I commented on that fact and the comment blown back was ''we are not here to serve you... we are here to regulate you!'' [/quote]

I'm glad that happened five years ago and not now. The new CEO places an enormous importance on good customer service - and you as a member are a customer of the College and should always be treated with respect. My observations of the RCVS whilst I am there is that great emphasis is being placed on achieving a positive culture.

The Council has looked at reduced retention fees for students and part time workers - that would of course mean an increased fee for everyone else which might not be popular - it does seem a surprisingly complex area. I am interested to hear that the GMC has a reduced rate and I will raise it next year when we reconsider the retention fee.

Yours,

Richard Stephenson