Students and Euthanasia

Re: Students and Euthanasia

emma_j — Fri, 02 May 2014 17:31:44 GMT

I'm opposite to a lot of people it seems, in that I'm more likely to invite the student in to a euthanasia if I know the patient & owner better, as I then have a pretty good idea of how their presence is likely to be received. I always explain to the owner they are a student. I don't tend to invite them in until they've been with me a few days and I've got to know them a bit too. Often they have actually asked my permission in advance when they have seen the appointment booked, and then I will definitely allow them in as long as the owner is ok with it.

Handling euthanasia well is one of the topics that I will pretty much always 'lecture' vet students on when they see practice with me, so even if we don't actually have one happen whilst they are there, if there is an appropriate time we will have a good chat about how I approach them anyway. I just really care that people do this well! I also usually make them do any euths when owners are not present (assuming I think they are practically capable).

Re: Students and Euthanasia

Holly Norman — Fri, 02 May 2014 17:21:56 GMT

I will have students in for euthanasias but always ask the owner first. It will depend on the case and I will usually kick students out for those patients dear to me or those that have spent the last couple of months battling a long standing illness and finally lost as I think these are too emotional all around!

Re: Students and Euthanasia

CatherineThomas — Fri, 02 May 2014 15:50:22 GMT

I don't like to have extra people in the room for euthanasia, as I don't think people want to be watched in that situation, even if they do agree when asked. But if the student has shown that they can raise a vein beforehand I will keep them in and get them to hold and raise the vein for me rather than asking a nurse, so long as the animal is a well behaved one.

Re: Students and Euthanasia

David Hopper — Fri, 02 May 2014 15:13:31 GMT

Many years ago I shot a horse in a field. As I pulled the trigger the horse flicked his head and the bullet richochet. The horse looked rather bemused and the bullet went goodness knows where? Luckily it missed the owner and I but three could have been a crowd?

Re: Students and Euthanasia

Nicola Cole — Thu, 01 May 2014 21:04:56 GMT

I usually keep vet students in with me for euthanasias. If I know the client and think they would prefer them not to be present I will explain this to student beforehand and get them to go out before consult starts. I always warn vet students if appointment is for euthanasia or if I think it may be one. If I'm leaving the room to get injection etc then I always take the student out with me (I warn them beforehand I'm going to do this) so they aren't left with an upset client on their own with an awkward silence to fill. Then if I think the owner is happy for student to be there they come back in with me and assist in some way (even if just handing me clippers etc). I don't let work experience students stay as even during normal consults I always think they stand out as an extra person more, rather than a helper (if that makes any sense!)

Re: Students and Euthanasia

Jenny Smith — Thu, 01 May 2014 16:04:23 GMT

As a student I was allowed to be involved in euthanasias, partially because I was working as a receptionist in a practice part time too, so was exposed to things more. I think it was a huge help, and learning the 'art' as others have said, of dealing with owners was invaluable. That said, I think that students should be introduced to euthanasia situations carefully. In one particular practice I was asked to come into one of the consult rooms 'to lend a hand' and walked in to a hysterical family about to have their elderly dog PTS. No warning from the vet that was why he needed my help, and I had walked in as my usual cheerful self.... In the same practice I was presented with my first euthanasia. We saw in a stray cat, young, massive kidneys and ill. Likely FIV/FeLV. The vet discussed the ddx with me, discussed why he felt euthanasia was the best option etc. Then just handed me the syringe and walked out with the words 'well off you go'. In at the deep end. I think I took it ok, but it could have been a very bad first experience!

I haven't had a vet student in a while (ECC clinic) but if I did, I would have them in the consult. I don't think I'd introduce them as the student, but as someone there to help me. That way I think it's less invasive for the owner, but the students still get a chance to see things before they are on the other side of the syringe. I would always let them know what's going on beforehand!

Jenny

Re: Students and Euthanasia

Mark Frost — Thu, 01 May 2014 15:33:26 GMT

Agreed, it is important for students to see the discussions and process but making them useful during is the best way to limit any sensitivity to their presence. If not a vet student seeing practice then I do not have them present (work experience etc..) Conversely as a student I was asked to euthanase a horse in front of the owner, which was sprung on me by the vet as we got out of the car at the yard... fortunately all went well and was a useful learning experience but a little more notice would have been appreciated (the owner was well known to the vet).

Re: Students and Euthanasia

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 01 May 2014 15:04:55 GMT

People may say they don't mind, but at the same time resent their grief being observed. If they think the student is part of the normal team, it may be more sensitive.

Always a difficult one,but it's important students and young nurses learn to handle these most difficult of all consultations. I think it doesn't help that death has now become the taboo subject - the Victorians would never talk about sex, but had well-established protocols to deal with bereavement. We discuss sex with no embarrassment, but aren't experienced in dealing with grief.

Wynne

Re: Students and Euthanasia

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 01 May 2014 14:19:40 GMT

I ask the owner if they mind if a student is present, they almost invariably don't, but it is of course an important part of the job they should observe - dealing with client reaction, being empathetic etc, as well as the actual act of euthanasia

Re: Students and Euthanasia

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 01 May 2014 11:31:33 GMT

Id make use of the student to hold bottles/syringes/catheters etc so they look like helpers, not observers

Wynne

Re: Students and Euthanasia

Bob Russell — Thu, 01 May 2014 09:57:59 GMT

If a student can be of assistance then nothing wrong with them being present. If not they can be given 'gofer' jobs to justify their presence. It is a very important part of practice for them to learn especially how owners are handled.

Work experience types are never allowed near these consultations. I would always involve a student even if to fetch and carry to avoid the impression that they are just observers. Obviously I warn the student what I am doing and why. Not had a student here for a few years!

Re: Students and Euthanasia

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 01 May 2014 09:42:46 GMT

I'm always happy for students to observe, it can be handy having an extra pair of hands to PTS a horse. The only time I suggest not is when we get the whole family land and our small animal consult room is tiny - you cannot get a student in too with multiple family members.