Disclaimers: The new world

Re: Disclaimers: The new world

Braden Collins — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 01:59:10 GMT

[quote user="John Flynn"]

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]'During anaesthesia ... fluid therapy should be considered as standard practice.'[/quote]

I missed where the quote was from, but with respect to a cat castration, i'm not convinced that this is necessary.

I think i remember one of those GA mortality surveys indicating a higher mortality in cats that received iv fluids during ga (and intubation for that matter)? (I realise of course that may have been receiving iv fluids because the practitioners considered to be a higher risk procedure - can't remember if study corrected for that or not?)

Still - i don't think i'll change from my current cat castrate practice just yet...

[/quote]

I think the higher mortality was when a fluid pump wasn't used - fluid overload was the main culprit I believe.

We put all our GA's on IV fluids. We debated cat castrates but felt IV access was important so we were already putting a catheter in. We decided it was easier to just put them on fluids to make a universal, easily explained practice policy that to have a policy of IV fluids except cat castrates.

Of course the price went up a bit, but it hasn't affected the number of surgeries we are doing as we were already the most expensive in town.

Re: Disclaimers: The new world

mariette asselbergs — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 19:50:53 GMT

Ha, when I first started to come to the UK in the beginning of the 2000s, this was thre thing that struck me as hilariously British: from the moment you stepped of the plane there were warning signs everywhere telling you to mind the steps, floor might be slippery, mind your head, no playing with balls, door opening, doors closing, hold on the tram is moving.... I once had a project photographing all the signs but I ran out of enthousiasm and got bored with it, Now I conform and don't notice anything but also don't so anything risky anymore...

Mariette

Re: Disclaimers: The new world

Dagmar Steele — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 14:52:04 GMT

This winter my son had to write the sentence: "Throwing snow balls and building ice slides is forbidden" twenty times. Guess what? it had snowed and surprise, surprise, he did throw a snowball...

Re: Disclaimers: The new world

Sarah McGurk — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 12:22:53 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]I have sailed next to the Corryvrecken "whirlpool" in Scotland, `scrambled in the Cuillins, climbed on the cliffs of the Whin Sill in Northumberland and done any number of daft and potentially dangerous things in my time and I don't recall ever seeing H and S warning notices nor have I ever felt under any external pressure to modify my behaviour. No imagination needed.

[/quote]

All those things sound delightful. Don't know if those posting here have children, but I worked in the nursery here when my son was there, aged about 5. They decided to make a big chest / box in an outside shed, and rather than getting someone it to do it, one of the nursery staff set to with a saw and about fifteen children to make it. Most of the children were given a hammer and nails. Some of them were helping with the saw. Later, outside in minus 10 centigrade (they were outside for two to three hours a day, regardless of temperature), they would sometimes light up a big barbecue, swinging from a tripod. The children were running wild around this thing.

No different at the school. The children are allowed to climb the trees in the playground, there is a big "Tarzan Løype", basically a huge structure made from logs with tyres built up either side and massive ropes and tyres for them to swing on. Several children have broken various bones on this thing, but everyone carries on regardless. They also came home with wooden items they had been whittling in class with knives. None of my children have died so far....

Not sure Wynne, how this would fit in with your political thinking. Norway is quite strongly socialist and believes in welfare. There are some differences from the UK, one of the chief ones (that I strongly approve of) is that you do pay a fee every time you have to see a doctor, which certainly makes people think twice before leaping in and heading to the medical centre, but despite the fact that the state does pick up the pieces for those who have major problems, there is still a strong sense of personal responsibility. Personally I blame the litigation culture, which always encourages people to look for someone else to blame, mainly so that they can claim money from them. And I don't think that comes from here. I think you might have to look to the capitalist captains on the other side of the Atlantic for that particular societal gift.

Re: Disclaimers: The new world

Francisco Gomez — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 10:32:25 GMT

It is under 'contraindications and warnings' in the 2mg/ml metacam cat product. The idea came from a Cpd course.

Re: Disclaimers: The new world

John Flynn — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 08:55:41 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]'During anaesthesia ... fluid therapy should be considered as standard practice.'[/quote]

I missed where the quote was from, but with respect to a cat castration, i'm not convinced that this is necessary.

Still - i don't think i'll change from my current cat castrate practice just yet...

Re: Disclaimers: The new world

Linda Filshie — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 21:46:22 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"][quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

I have been administering metacam inj. cat to cat castrations (you know, pain relief and that...). It is a cat castration (<5min job), for God's sake! Apparently, if something goes wrong, VDS won't be able to defend me unless the cat is on fluids at the time.

See datasheet...

[/quote] 'During anaesthesia, monitoring and fluid therapy should be considered as standard practice.' Expected Max weight cat castrate = 8kg. Maintenance 2ml/kg/h = 16ml, considering most cats will weight considerable less and im keeping under for no more than 20min (tho job is only a couple), therefore 16 x 20/60 = 5.3ml to each cat, subcut perhaps? Should I give a bit more since it is a ga/surgical procedure? ;-)

[/quote] I tend to give 3-5x maintenance - so you could stretch it out to 25ml if you were really worried

Re: Disclaimers: The new world

Francisco Gomez — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 14:49:33 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

See datasheet...

Re: Disclaimers: The new world

Utlendigur — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:53:11 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

[quote user="Utlendigur"]Could you imagine that here?[/quote]

I have sailed next to the Corryvrecken "whirlpool" in Scotland, `scrambled in the Cuillins, climbed on the cliffs of the Whin Sill in Northumberland and done any number of daft and potentially dangerous things in my time and I don't recall ever seeing H and S warning notices nor have I ever felt under any external pressure to modify my behaviour. No imagination needed.

[/quote]

Sorry - the photo doesn't make the context clear. Gulfoss is actually one of Iceland's main tourist attractions - up a slope to the left of shot is a visitor centre and carpark disgorging coach-loads of naive tourists. There is a big difference between an organised visitor attraction where the general public in all its glory descends en-masse, and the sort of activities that you describe which are only likely to be undertaken by someone with a degree of experience. FYI I have also spent decades fell running, walking, scrambling, backpacking, kayaking etc in some of the most remote areas of the UK and elswehere - and never felt the need to modify my behaviour either but you must have missed the warning sign at the top of Glen Sligachan or on the walk in to Camasunary telling people that they are "Now entering remote, sparsely populated potentially dangerous mountain country" and to make sure they have the proper equipment and experience etc

Re: Disclaimers: The new world

Malcolm Ness — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 11:37:03 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"]Could you imagine that here?[/quote]

Re: Disclaimers: The new world

Francisco Gomez — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 11:33:05 GMT

Oh no!

Re: Disclaimers: The new world

Hannah Wynne Richards — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 09:33:47 GMT

It's a curse brought about by a politically correct culture in which no-one is forced to take responsibilty for their actions, because "society" will pick up the pieces.

Francisco we agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wynne

Re: Disclaimers: The new world

Dagmar Steele — Fri, 21 Mar 2014 22:49:49 GMT

What a gorgeous photograph! Climb on the ever so popular Prejkestolen in Norway and you won't find any railings and stuff either :-) And of course not on many other places quite similar to it.... But in Germany you'd get the same media coverage if you'd ponder on the road drunk as a skunk and decided to blame someone else for it :-(

Re: Disclaimers: The new world

Utlendigur — Fri, 21 Mar 2014 22:07:23 GMT

[quote user="Sarah McGurk"]I live in Norway now, and things here are pretty much as they were in the UK thirty years ago. The health and safety culture hasn't been ramped up due an overzealous blame / litigation culture and people still expect to take care of themselves, or deal with the consequences.[/quote]

I've spent quite a bit of time in Iceland over the years and know what you mean, it's very similar over there - eg Gullfoss..Elf and Safety Iceland-style - no safety barrier, no warning notices - just an assumption of personal responsibility and common sense. Could you imagine that here?

Re: Disclaimers: The new world

Sarah McGurk — Fri, 21 Mar 2014 15:47:14 GMT

Do you think that the media are also partly to blame in fuelling these people? For some reason, the BBC site you linked (and I have also seen it in a number of newspapers I would have thought credible in the past) have felt it appropriate to give this woman publicity.

I feel the police dealt with a difficult situation in a practical way, and whilst it wasn't ideal to leave her in the bus lane, that seems more of an error of judgement than any reason for wasting any money on an enquiry. Twenty years ago of course, there might have been a quiet internal investigation if she had even thought to bring a complaint (it probably wouldn't have crossed her mind to do so back then, but if she had). Someone in charge would have looked at the situation, concluded quite correctly it was ridiculous, and thrown it out. The woman was responsible for herself, and made various bad choices (getting drunk, being aggressive and violent towards police officers who were presumably trying to keep the peace) and they moved her out of the way and left her somewhere she was probably relatively safe. Just before this, she was up and fighting with them. It wasn't as if they left her unconscious in the road.

I live in Norway now, and things here are pretty much as they were in the UK thirty years ago. The health and safety culture hasn't been ramped up due an overzealous blame / litigation culture and people still expect to take care of themselves, or deal with the consequences.