Fathers, mothers and childcare

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Emma Middleton — Thu, 10 Apr 2014 16:33:04 GMT

Before having children I was doing around 43 hours a week. I had 11 months maternity leave with my son (on statutory maternity pay for 9 months then unpaid) then returned to my job doing around 33 hours (over 3 weekdays and 1:2 Saturdays). I earn more than my partner but he is self employed so while I was on mat leave he had to do more work to pay the bills. Re childcare, grandparents take it in turns one day a week and the other two days a week we pay for nursery. My partner drops off and picks up, as I finish work too late. It has pretty much turned out as we planned. I don't know how we would manage if my partner wasn't flexible enough to get to nursery on time!

The hours I do are based mainly on financial necessity (and needs of my employer), I think I'd do slightly less if I had the choice. Baby no. 2 is due in October and I plan to do the same thing and return to same hours.

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Clair Firth — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 17:45:31 GMT

I'm in Vienna so things are different here, I also work for a pharmaceutical company which means my working arrangements can be more flexible (and no on-call!). My husband and I earn about the same (he's in IT). We have 2 kids (now 11 and 7) and I took 2 years off with my eldest....here our jobs are kept open for that long (but only for companies with more than 20 employees and where you have worked for more than 2 yrs!) and I was paid €450/month statutory maternity pay (now the system has changed and you can get 80% of your salary for a year, I didn't have that option). So money was limited. Yes I had the luxury of being able to go back to my job after 2yrs but I certainly wasn't getting a huge amount of money every month! My husband would have loved to have taken proper paternity leave but as it was he just looked after our daughter one day a week once I went back to work part-time - paternity leave wasn't really the done thing then. With my youngest, I took 18mths maternity leave, same pay as before. I still work at my job part-time. When my youngest was a year old, I went to vet school as a mature student :) So my husband has spent a lot of time looking after our kids while I have been on EMS and working night shifts at uni. I will soon be leaving my family for 10wks straight of EMS in the south of Austria, I'm hoping to get home for some weekends but my husband will be taking over 90% of the childcare.

Nobody can decide this for you. My husband would have loved to take paternity leave, but it wasn't possible with his job. Now the kids are older, it's obviously much easier (my eldest comes home from school on the bus, which definitely makes all the parental taxi driving a bit easier!). Regardless of how much your husband earns, if he doesn't want to do it, then it won't work. People complain about being bored at home and it's true that the time with an infant is not extremely mentally stimulating! But it is extremely exhausting and very hard work, certainly not the easy option.

You will always need a back-up plan for childcare. Nursery is great, but won't take sick kids. Having combined an office job, vetmed degree and 2 kids I can tell you that they will always get sick when you don't have a Plan B. Around exam time I have had chicken pox, flu, a broken arm, ear infection - the kids I mean, not me ;-)

Good luck!

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Allie Woodward — Fri, 04 Apr 2014 07:58:49 GMT

I went part time before I had children. I would say it can be a rough ride as practice is not always the friendliest place to have childcare arrangements. I did have some in work bullying. One person telling me that tacking holiday onto the end of my 4 month maternity leave was legally but not morally right ;( I have to say I now locum as I did not want the discrimination that goes with maternity pay etc. nor anyone to say that I am a burden to their practice. However I would dearly love to be an employee after these past four years of feeling slightly unstable! As far as money goes. We preemptively save for all routine bills, childcare, school and out of school club fees. Car insurance etc etc... And we have looked at extending our mortgage duration for five years so that monthly bills are more manageable. My husband gets childcare vouchers via work and we use them too.

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Braden Collins — Fri, 21 Mar 2014 13:16:40 GMT

My wife is a GP registrar so before I got into practice ownership she earned a lot more than I did. We brought a clinic a 8 months before my son was born and my wife wanted to be a stay at home mum as much as possible. Practice ownership allowed us to absorb the loss of her income to a certain extent. She had 6 month maternity leave and has gone back part time. She does 2 afternoons each week where my parents look after my son, and a full day each Wednesday which I have off so I can be Dad for the day, which I love. I also finish early on a Tuesday so we can do stuff together at least one evening each week.

The decision for it to be her that cut her hours back was exactly what she wanted. She made it clear to me that it was what she wanted right from the start.

Second bub is on its way now, so we are planning for my wife to have at least 12 months off, but may chose to extend it.

One of our vets is a mum and works part-time, which we find really handy. It means we have someone who can pick up some extra hours when other vets are away, and means I can have my day off each week without having to employ another full time vet.

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Virginia Campbell — Fri, 21 Mar 2014 07:02:08 GMT

Thanks all for the replies.

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Dagmar Steele — Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:24:32 GMT

I got pregnant two years after buying a single woman practice and had another child four years later (aged 33 and 37). OH and me earned nearly the same, he had slightly more. Stopping work was no option (practice was literally owned by the bank) but I did cut back hours (ie. I closed on the Friday afternoons and employed a part-time vet for Monday afternoon and every other Saturday). The kids came to work with me at three weeks of age and went into childcare part time at 18 mths. I did breastfeed for 12/15mths so this can be done. OH can take time off when they're ill or they come to work with me if it's not too bad, we don't have any family nearby to give a hand. Over the years we worked with private nannies, kindergarden and babysitters but always tried to make sure we see enough of the kids ourselves. OH starts work as early as he can and is back home between four and five, whereas I have a very extended lunch break. There were times when nearly all of my income went into childcare. There is not much "me-time" or "us-time" left for the parents, but now that they're 10 and 14 it's getting better. I am glad that I didn't stay at home as my husband was made redundant when our first child was about 20mths and my income helped us through, it roughly two years till he found a new employment (he is a graphic designer). As long as he doesn't have to go away for work (ie. two or three weeks in Shanghai/Mumbai you name it, which is thankfully only getting more frequent now that the children are getting older) the tightly organized system works, but beware any glitches, they can make things really difficult. Over the years I have learned to improvise, be a lot more flexible and more fatalistic - somehow it'll all work out. I do think we see enough of the kids, they have a lot of hobbies and so far we always managed to see each and every riding competition, agility competition, golf tournament, flute and piano concert and so on. We have meals together and read bedtime stories, we spend time together and so on. The kids never said the dreaded sentence: "You're never here for me" so far. But it does come at a cost, although I wouldn't change anything - it is very exhausting and draining and the danger of losing yourself or your marriage is very real. And it has impact on my work as well as husbands work. I don't do OOH, I have fewer opening hours than neighboring practices and I am sure it does have impact on my income as well as the buzz and excitement that comes with real emergencies, I have to be content with every days work and what income it generates, expanding the practice is no option for me at the moment. Husband also has been asked to work more hours, go abroad more often and so on and his refusal surely has had some impact on his stepping up the career ladder. As we do have more than enough money to live and pay the bills including a house, hobbies, cars that don't fall apart and even some holidays it has been a conscious decision that we don't need to step up careers and income but rather spend more time as a family. It works for us.

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Gareth C. — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 22:55:48 GMT

[quote user="Charlotte Lusted"]

Has anyone bought into a practice and then had a family a couple of years (or sooner) later - what sort of challenge does that present regarding managing a practice and childcare?

[/quote]

I did and know of others who did and single handed bosses who have started a family. I think it really depends what the practice is like you are buying into. As a previous post said, it's give and take. But I can't imagine anyone getting to old age and thinking "i'm gald I spent all my time at work and didn't have a family". In hindsight we should have all become gp's with 6 figure salaries and gold plated pensions.

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Gareth C. — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 22:55:44 GMT

[quote user="Charlotte Lusted"]

Has anyone bought into a practice and then had a family a couple of years (or sooner) later - what sort of challenge does that present regarding managing a practice and childcare?

[/quote]

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

tess — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 21:52:03 GMT

OH earns more than I ever could fulltime . We were relocating with his work & I got pregnant around the same time. I made a conscious decision not to work until children started school. Had 7 years out . Came back very gradually- first as a locum to local practices which enabled me to select my hours to a certain extent. OH works away regularly and we have no family support in the area . I wanted minimal impact in the children with regard to childcare. Now I'm employed part time 3 days a week, but finish in time for children getting home from school. They use an out of school club sometimes during holidays, but OH can work from home when he's here so it's minimal.

Don't leave it too late to have children, otherwise you'll be hitting the menopause as they hit puberty!

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Charlie Lyon — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 20:25:55 GMT

Has anyone bought into a practice and then had a family a couple of years (or sooner) later - what sort of challenge does that present regarding managing a practice and childcare?

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

karen jones — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 20:11:54 GMT

I've had two children and worked full time. I managed with help of family being close but I employed a nanny at home so I could see my children at lunchtime and half days were a joy. A nanny ( not live in ) was flexible and the girls were in their own environment. My husband is a paramedic so works shifts but was home during week.my girls loved visiting farms and have had breakfast in several farm kitchens as toddlers and at weekend they would come in to work with me. I think the biggest decision is whether you do want children, they are a big expense as well as a great joy.

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 20:11:02 GMT

LOL - Good point but I think you've forgotton that babies are only exclusively breast fed for 4-6 months!!! I think that the mum will usually want to take a few months, by which time baby will be either starting to be weaned or taking milk from a bottle/beaker! Speaking personally, I only went back to work (starting one day a week and gradually increasing) once weaning was started and mine would take a bit of expressed milk/baby rice mix from a spoon. I also came home (only 5 mins away) to feed a couple of times a day. Neither of mine ever had any formula milk and neither would they feed from a bottle (mainly because I never tried when they were very small) so it can be done!

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Gerry Henry — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 20:03:55 GMT

How does the stay at home husband cope with breast feeding, just asking.

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Wren — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 19:39:16 GMT

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"]

I should probably explain why I'm interested.

I'm getting married in June.

My fiance works in the republic of Ireland, two hours away. He leaves the house at 5.30am and gets home between 7 and 9 most days. He's a tree surgeon and his work is unpredictable - he could have to stay till later some days, or his boss could ring him the night before and tell him that the job is cancelled and there's no work that day.

I work 40 hours a week and earn significantly more than he does. I pay all of the mortgage. We have had a couple of brief discussions about when and if we have children. He acknowledges that it makes sense for him to get a part time job near home and do the majority of the childcare, while I might be able to knock my hours back a little bit but keep on working.

I'm 35. With regards to career, life and in general I'd rather not have children for another 5-10 years, but I'd rather have them sooner than risk not having them at all, or spend my life looking at a poor child that's disabled because of my life choices.

I am very interested to hear from people further down the road to see if the reality matches the plan in most cases.

[/quote]

I could have written this! I'm the same age as you, have been married for about 8 years, my husband earns a much lower wage and is away working Monday to Friday. I do not know whether I want children but feel like my age will force me to decide one way or the other in the near future. My husband is just over 40 which is another complication. All the bills are paid from my wage and there is pretty much nothing left over. I have no idea financially or logistically how it would even be possible if we decided it was what we wanted. My husband has absolutely no qualifications and has worked his way up in the job he has. I think he'd find it very difficult to get anything similar nearer home.

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 18:59:04 GMT

I had five months off with each of my children . I was an employer . I wish I could have spent more time with my children when they were little but you can't have everything . I was the main breadwinner. My husband did more than most men do over the years, we had to use child minders and a lot of negotiation between us to make sure we were there for the boys. Oh and they both had learning difficulties and autism which made life even more challenging. Unfortunately our marriage didn't make it but we managed twenty two years . I regret not having more time with them when they were little but I loved my job too and it gave me an alternative focus which I think was good . My ex husband is a very loving hands on Dad. You can be supported as a working parent but don't use children as a reason for special treatment beyond your colleagues goodwill . I have seen both sides of working vet parents and they can be a joy , willing , flexible and a pleasure to help and support or a nightmare who know all their rights but none of their responsibilities. Just make sure you which one you are and keep your self respect.

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Gareth C. — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 18:47:35 GMT

we are another two vet couple and have 3 children. initially my wife went from full time job mat leave then back to part time. now we job share at the same practice. This works well as we are never at work together! Have you considered you both going part time so you effectively job share? childacre is expensive and a lot of hassle (eg childminder ill, on holiday, picking up dropping off when your job is unpredictavle). The governments "new" help for childcare is simply a rebranding of the very good new-labour childcare voucher scheme. I did the toddler group thing and enjoyed it, but was lucky as knew a few people there anyway. Stay at home dads are not that unusual these days. Also is great to have that time with the kids as a dad. Mountain biking with a childseat only adds to the fun!

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 18:23:52 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"] A friend did it. The finances or the work were not the problem. He was just terribly isolated. There are no support structures. He tried the toddler group world and all the "mum" events that new mums attend. Unfortunately they were all new mums. A bloke in his Early 40's didn't really fit in - couldn't relate to endless regurgitation of the child birth stories etc.[/quote]

Been there, tried that, tree surgeon fiancée going to trampoline club.......mmmmmm.. Mark is right society isn't geared to stay at home dads, if I see another playground, I'll scream!!

We managed, with very little childcare, but was a compromise between my wife having great employers and so was able to start late, finish early on Monday, Tuesday didn't work. I joined AHVLA and sold my soul to deal with TB, so Wednesday I dropped and picked up squeezing in an investigation, then having jabbed millions of cows on the Monday and Tuesday read them on Thursday and Friday, having dropped the children of before and getting back to school just in time. Week sorted.

So yes it can be done but we both had to find a way.

I've spoken to many vets who put their work first, wishing at 60 that they'd seen their children more than bedtime. Life's too short to miss seeing the children grow up. My father was a dairy farmer and saw little of me, we had 3 days holiday in 18 years, we have little to bond us today.

Yes you need to earn an income, but what is life all about?

Neil

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

David Shepherd — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 17:13:44 GMT

Long time ago now (my youngest daughter is getting married this year) and I guess society and the profession has changed somewhat, but so far as I recall;

When our first child was due my wife was at the time earning a bit more than me, especially when pension rights etc taken into account (she was a teacher). We did discuss the possibility of me giving up work, but she wanted to spend the time with the kids when they were small, so got a jobshare arrangement which worked very well. Being in a mixed practice environment had its pros and cons for me; yes, the long hours and night and weekend work, but also the flexibility to take a couple of hours off during the day to attend sports days, class assemblies etc. In the practice we have always taken an afternoon off each week which I used to spend time with the kids. Also when the kids were a bit older they would sometimes come out with me on calls at weekends and school holidays, which was fun for me and them and would not have been possible in a more structured career. As a practice we have for a long time now had relatively generous holiday allowances, which helped.

I think looking back, a full time dad role would have been difficult because so many things, from 'mums and tots' groups, to nursery arrangements, ballet classes etc are (were?) predominantly filled by women and it would have been socially difficult for me to fit into that. Ok chicken and egg, I know, and possibly exacerbated by the fact that both my children were girls.

I guess everyone is different and you have to make the arrangements which suit you as a couple. At risk of sounding trite, its very true to say the children are only young once and its a shame to miss out on the experience of spending time with them and building up a relationship. As I say to them (too frequently) 'If I look after you now, hopefully you will look after me when I'm old and feeble!'

David

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 16:52:07 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]That does of course depend on your income (and mortgage) to start with[/quote]

Of course - everybody has a different set of circumstances and, coming from a working class background,I do understand that there are limits how low the income can go.

I would argue, however, that to some degree, living costs and especially the size of the mortgage is something you can choose. We've chosen to stay in our house as we want to keep our mortgage down. We didn't have holidays abroad when the kiddies were small, and still don't have big exotic holidays. Our cars are the oldest in the practice. I think people sometimes want to keep a larger income so that they can afford a large house, big holiday, range rover, daily costa coffee etc because that is what they are used. to, rather than truly being unable to afford to drop. We are obviously all entitled to choose how we spend our money but Ian and I have faced many assumptions about our personal financial situation, having both been working part-time for years, when in fact, for the first few years, we lived on less that one full time income!

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Marie Kubiak — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 16:23:06 GMT

About to go on maternity leave so this has been an ongoing discussion for us!

I went part-time through choice last summer so am only working mornings (8-1pm) at the practice, and do research/free-lance work in the afternoons and hubby works full-time as an accountant but can in theory be working anywhere in the UK so currently can be away from home for the odd week which is going to be less than ideal.

I will take 20wks maternity, he will then take 15-20wks paternity leave. At the end of this we plan to put the little person in nursery for mornings while I continue working part-time. His compromise will be using flexi-time/working from home to start work later so he can drop them off in the morning, and negotiating not working outside the local area so he isn't away for evenings. There will also be discussions on reducing his hours so that he can do 4 or 4 1/2 days a week. I know that he has had a much more negative response from work as the senior partners there have made it quite clear they feel it is the woman's role to look after the child...

It makes more sense to me that I should be the one to work less hours as I already have that option set up and if I go back to work full time it isn't unfeasible that I would go back to working 8am-9pm again whereas he has much more control over his hours.

Marie

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:59:52 GMT

I moved from full time practice to an office job in the beginning of 2012; i still get to meet a lot of vets and do a lot CPD (part of my job) but getting home and missing bathtime, story time, daughter scared when i walked in...no thanks. I like clinical work but it's not worth sacrificing my family for. And for those of you who say being a vet defines who you are?

Wrong. You define what being a vet is.

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Mark Holmes — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:27:05 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]I realise that we had more options as we are both vets, but, whatever jobs both parents have, I think a drop in income is a worthwhile sacrifice if there is any chance of both parents dropping their hours.[/quote]

That does of course depend on your income (and mortgage) to start with

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:22:49 GMT

Both me and hubby are vets, but were working at different practices. We both wanted to have time with the children and neither wanted to stop work altogether. We also wanted to move closer to my family. We went to a few job interviews but didn't think that we would both be able to work as vets due to the long, unpredictable hours. In the end we set up our own practice and started to job share, which we still do 10 years later. It meant a significant drop in income for the first few years but both of us feel it was the best decision we have ever made. Both of us have had an equal role bringing up the children.

I realise that we had more options as we are both vets, but, whatever jobs both parents have, I think a drop in income is a worthwhile sacrifice if there is any chance of both parents dropping their hours.

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Virginia Campbell — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:02:52 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"] couldn't relate to endless regurgitation of the child birth stories etc. There are no stay at home dad groups which go fishing and stuff.[/quote]

Yeah all that stuff fills me with dread too. Whole conversations about wetwipes and weaning ages - urgh. I'd much rather strap a lifejacket on the baby and go fishing too.

Re: Fathers, mothers and childcare

Liz w — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 14:59:28 GMT

Husband works long hours, but earns more than I did when working full time. If I Worked full time as a vet Childcare costs even now they're at school would be extortionate, because we would be charged for taxis to after school club, plus afterschoolclub itself. Also, afterschool club finishes at 6pm, by which time which neither of us could guarantee getting there. Because of husband's long hours, I wouldn't be able to do on call, in case it ran into the time he has to leave for work. If the practice is further than twenty minutes away, I'd be looking at breakfast club plus another set of taxi charges. I guess if I had an au pair, or part-time nanny it could work, but to be honest, I actually was glad to have the excuse to be at home with the kids when they were small.