Future of the VPIS

Re: Future of the VPIS

Laurence Webb — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 22:20:44 GMT

I think the VPIS provide an excellent service and I think the transfer to their new system where you buy a number of credits will be a shame.

We normally charge clients a fee to use them (about the same as a consult fee). If you've taken a history from the owner via the phone, telephoned the VPIS then phoned the client back that takes at least as long as a consult does so why not charge for the time?

I don't always charge, especially if it's a query that I ought to know the answer to but have forgotten/can't be bothered to find the bit of paper it's written on (an example today was 2 Westies that had eaten 400g of Milk tray between them and I couldn't remember the toxic dose of milk chocolate).

If it's something that I shouldn't be expected to know the answer to off the top of my head then I'll charge. Last week I had a dog that bit into the owner's asthma inhalor and gave itself Salbutemol poisoning. Without their advice the dog may well have died, or I'd have had to spend an hour googling for information at 2 in the morning.

Re: Future of the VPIS

Nixthevet — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 15:42:24 GMT

I have used VPIS on many occassions as an emergency vet. I think they do provide an invaluable service as they are easily accessible and it's quick an easy to get an over view of the likely effects of a particular ingestion. They are also pretty good at recommending treatment protocols. I woudl say that there certainly used to be some discrepency between the advise given from the Leeds number and that given from the London number- not sure why but they definitely differed on s few occassions.

Google is all well and good but VPIS can give you advise quickly and give fairly specific details on teh previous outcome of similar cases- so I'd be gutted if they were no longer available.

Re: Future of the VPIS

Bob Russell — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 08:59:24 GMT

Not going to happen - the way things happen in the UK now is that there is a way above inflation rise in a fee then part of it is used to pay for things! ie the fee would rise to £50 leaving the RCVS to spend the full £40 providing registration that was previously free!!!!

Re: Future of the VPIS

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 04 Apr 2010 00:06:10 GMT

How about giving them £10 of the £40 every premises has to pay to be registered to prescribe drugs and have it free at the point of delivery!

Re: Future of the VPIS

Bob Russell — Sat, 03 Apr 2010 11:31:27 GMT

I have used them occasionally and found them extremely good. This new payment system, in my opinion is going to kill the service. We use it occasionally so will probably buy limited credit for emergencies or wait and pay if needed. Therefore they will make little out of us! At the moment we pay happily to have the service and charge owners each time it is used. It is revenue neutral for us. Now the temptation will be to google etc and they will lose even that reduced income from us!

Re: Future of the VPIS

Hanna Bennett — Fri, 02 Apr 2010 19:55:10 GMT

[quote user="alison howell"]I think that a large amount of the normal strength difenacoum is safe but there is also an industrial strength one which will cause problems in small amounts....presume this is what the dog mentioned above had eaten![/quote]

it was a farm collie which had eaten rat bait - told them the strength of it!

Re: Future of the VPIS

vs0u — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 22:45:49 GMT

I worked at Vets Now until recently and we used VPIS several times per week. It's not just poisons they can advise on but objects that have been eaten as well from batteries to prune stones! And they will actually tell you the likely effects from the amount the dog has eaten, how to treat, doses for antidotes, brand names and where they might be available from - info not usually found on websites or books, which usually just tell you the signs of toxicity.

Have always found it an invaluable service. We didn't charge it direct to the client though - don't think we'd have used it so much if we had.

[quote user="Hanna Bennett"]

VPIS have been useful but also taken with a pinch of salt. Had a farm collie collapsed, white as a sheet in front of me as a new grad, with exposure to a couple of handfuls of difenacoum and was told it would have to of eaten 5 kg of the stuff to be affected! Its' APTT and PTT were so far off the scale the lab were amazed that it was still alive... Thankfully it lived due to a blood transfusion.

[/quote]

I think that a large amount of the normal strength difenacoum is safe but there is also an industrial strength one which will cause problems in small amounts....presume this is what the dog mentioned above had eaten!

Re: Future of the VPIS

Hanna Bennett — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:34:30 GMT

Re: Future of the VPIS

Julian Earl — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:06:17 GMT

I have only used them a couple of times and found them to be reading the same textbooks that we have at the surgery, so although that may just be unfortunate "choices" of poison, they have been of limited use so far. Sorry.

Re: Future of the VPIS

Vikki Halliday LLB — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 18:24:27 GMT

[quote user="Ian Mostyn"] I would rather have had a set £20 charge (for example) for each case. Am I just being grumpy?[/quote]

Nope, I think this might be a little better, although you would have to be able to directly pass this on to the client, otherwise Google is cheap and quite useful in the middle of the night.

Re: Future of the VPIS

Ian Mostyn — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 18:03:46 GMT

I have just got the renewal letter through for the new subscription based VPIS service and it does seem overly complicated. We only used them twice last year so it is likely to be cheaper for us but I am paying a big premium for only using them twice. Do I buy 5 credits and run the risk of losing my money if they time out? Or do I buy just 2 at a time? I am also not sure how I would charge this to clients, what about a phone call to say my dog has eaten drug X, call the VPIS, no treatment needed - I can see a lot of bad debts coming my way. Much easier for in-patients needing treatment.

As much as I appreciate the VPIS, it might be simpler to just buy a couple of good books and maybe just ring and pay if I am stuck with a particular case. I would rather have had a set £20 charge (for example) for each case. Am I just being grumpy?

Ian

Re: Future of the VPIS

Martin McDowell — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 20:59:21 GMT

I have used VPIS on a couple of occasions and their service was superb and I would be very ad if they would have to downscale their service or, worse still, have to stop alltogether.

I would encourage anyone to use it as they give detail and current info on poisons.

Re: Future of the VPIS

Holly Lee — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:53:26 GMT

VPIS have been invaluable to me, and I agree that they're most useful OOH when you need an answer asap. An online VPIS service would be a compromise I guess but otherwise it's hard to quickly find accurate information online and sort this from all the hear-say. As far as cost to practice that's the concern of the higher powers! so I couldn't really comment, but I would be really disappointed to lose the service.

Re: Future of the VPIS

Phil Elkins — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 20:14:45 GMT

Also, no longer in small animal practice, but I agree with all said above! When you have a case of known ingestion of potential toxins, a quick telephone call will let you know whether the animal requires seeing and if so appropriate treatment. I am currently working in New Zealand and a farmer's dog ingested a tube of ant poison (boric acid). By the time I had driven in to the practice, googled all the appropriate information, found the toxin book and toxic doses, phoned the owner and driven home, it was 90 minutes later. If I was in the UK, a quick telephone call, and 5 minutes later I could have been eating my tea! So the realistic cost to the practice which should relate to the realistic cost to the client would be considerably higher if not for VPIS. I hope the profession supports them as much as possible as they do a great job.

Re: Future of the VPIS

Liz w — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:47:07 GMT

i'm not working at the moment so haven't used it recently, but have found it invaluble in the past. having said that, not sure if most the information could be accessed by googling now?? i wouldn't advocate reduced hours - i think all the times i used it were oohs, mainly weekends