Dogs attacking babies and children

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 17:25:04 GMT

Marriette Oh dear!

There's still no official news on the Pontyberem baby. The police say they expect it to be a long-drawn out enquiry.

Wynne

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Bob Russell — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 17:17:18 GMT

I had a difficult conversation with a couple last week. Combined IQ was less than the number of fingers and toes of the average vet. They had gone to pick up a staffie puppy. What materialised was not much short of a (10mth old) pit bull type!

The owners wheeled the unruly dog into the consulting room together with a baby in a pram!!

I did some pretty straight talking and made reams of notes recommending a real rethink about the choice of dog.

What on earth gets into people?

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

mariette asselbergs — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 16:57:25 GMT

On a lighter note: my partner who is a child psychiatrist got a child referred because it had bitten the dog. Badly!

Mariette

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 27 Feb 2014 09:10:56 GMT

Clare. The author of that attack seems a step ahead of the police. The official attitude is still, "early stages of a sensitive enquiry," so the dog's guilt is by no means established.

The dog is still alive, and the police are very cagey in what they are prepared to say.

That is all that can be said with any certainty at the moment.

Wynne

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Clare Wilson — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 20:24:47 GMT

Here is a very useful blog article about this topic... Clare.

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/yet-another-fatal-dog-attack/

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Tim Browning — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 17:46:55 GMT

Don't forget the Dobermann craze of 1976 ! They were really mean before Rottweilers trumped them.

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Anthony Todd — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:08:07 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"] before that GSDs[/quote]

before that Cocker spaniels hysterical and lethal concurrently....

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Hannah Wynne Richards — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 14:24:03 GMT

I've just had a really upsetting phone call from a client whose lovely malamute has disappeared. I'm just hoping that the dog is OK and hasn't been stolen by some evil person who fell for some of the lurid headlines seen last week. The official police response is still " early stages of a sensitive enquiry."

Wynne

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Hanna Bennett — Sat, 22 Feb 2014 19:48:22 GMT

interesting. when I worked in northeast scotland I never saw a staffie from one day to the next, now I see one an hour - based in the east midlands, though not inner city by any stretch! would reference this thread back to the one about muzzling - no dog is 'bad' - yes owners will get eg. husky type breeds without realizing that they need training/exercise beyond the norm, but my least favourite dog is the fear aggressive lab/goldie that just has not been socialized appropriately.

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Utlendigur — Sat, 22 Feb 2014 15:22:25 GMT

Before huskies/malamutes it was staffies and pitbulls staffie crosses, before that it was Rotties, before that GSDs. Same attraction (powerful aggressive-looking dog) just different flavours.

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

David Mills — Sat, 22 Feb 2014 14:18:35 GMT

Anecdote, but we seem to be seeing more of the 'extreme' breeds coming through the doors - malamutes, huskies, akitas, along with shar peis (and crosses). The number of Husky-type things on the streets of London is frightening.

There was an interesting article recently in the Times about Staffies becoming the chien du jour of the middle classes in the countryside and towns due to their affable natures, and 'green credentials' (recycled 'rescue dogs' from inner city poverty and depression). This might all be crap, but there may be a shift in the demographic, certainly as charity clients start to breed the bigger dogs and the prices come down from the bloke in the pub/on gumtree. At least in our line of work, this is concerning - imagine the number of behaviour problems, worsened in lower socio-economic sectors as theorised by Atko, and consulting room danger that this promises.

Has anyone else noticed this trend? It would make a great final year elective project to analyse an inner city charity practice registered clients dog breeds from year, say, 2008 and year 2013.

On the upside, despite being ambivalent towards Staffies (they lack intelligence and finesse, and their squeal is the stuff of nightmares), it would be nice for the breed to rediscover its original home as the lap/house dog of the middle classes.

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:00:41 GMT

I honestly don't know, but I'm keeping an open mind until the police release the cause of death. All they're saying at the moment is "continuing investigations"

Wynne

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 12:09:16 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Police still haven't released the cause of death of the Pontyberem child,they're just saying that they're awaiting PM and forensic reports; and, although the dog has been signed over to them, so they have no legal problems in destroying it, they haven't done so.

Wynne

[/quote]Clearly there is an inference in your thread that the dog is an excuse for a person harming the child. Probably unlikely in this case but I do wonder how many alleged fox attacks on children are a cover for the family pet actually causing the injuries or worse the parents.

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 11:53:35 GMT

I just wonder if there is a question mark as to the breed which may be the reason for the dna test. They say its an alaskan malamute but I've seen a few that the owner believes is a malamute but it has turned out to be an inuit type and many of these are actually malamute cross sarloos wolf dog. I've even heard of a first cross malamute with arctic wolf down here. How has defra allowed wolf hybrids to be in this country they are not family pets!

equally they could be doing a proper investigation as to the cause of death, innocent until proven guilty and all that. If it is guilty pts.

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 11:23:57 GMT

PS If the dog is guilty, I'd be the 1st to say it should be put down.

Wynne

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 11:16:57 GMT

Wynne

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 21:08:17 GMT

I agree. There are far worse dangers to children than their family pets. The rare fatal attacks are tragic but they are just that - rare.

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Miriam Lodewyks — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 21:03:35 GMT

There must be hundreds of thousands of homes with dogs in them in the UK alone. "Accidents" are going to happen, and as already mentioned: you can't legislate for stupidity. If you swim in the ocean, there's a risk you could get eaten by a shark. It's tragic. End of.

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 16:29:15 GMT

[quote user="Cat Henstridge"]

Does anyone else have an issue with the breed?

These and the huskies are becoming more and more popular, the Malamute is one of the fastest growing breeds,

[/quote] Absolutely they are being bought just as trophy dogs and fashion accessories. This is going to sound racist but they are becoming increasingly popular with Asian families for these reasons (at least around where I practice) and they have little idea how to train dogs at the best of times. They are willful potentially aggressive breeds which require a huge amount of exercise and are unsuited to our normal climate because of their coats. I shudder when I see one booked in for an appointment, they are almost invariably poorly trained and difficult to control. We have one idiot who has bred a cross of Malamute with Rottweiler and one with a Dog de Bordeaux. Pray - what are they trying to achieve with this other than an aggressive large dog.

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Anthony Todd — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 16:10:55 GMT

[quote user="Lindsay Sissons"]Then rehomed to a family home, it was returned to us for euthanasia having attempted to bite one of the children. Says it all!![/quote]

Sorry Gillian, I quoted the first bit instead of the last but it reinforces the point anyway.

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Bibs — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 15:48:03 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]Why anyone would thing that a dog would naturally understand a baby is a baby and NOT a small mewling snack is beyond me. You wouldn't leave a dog alone with a pet rabbit without expecting it. Why is a baby substantially different. (From a dog's perspective)

[/quote]

I really think a lot of people don't get it at all. Last year I saw two injured terriers, one with a broken fore limb. The reason they were injured was because the owner had left them alone with the family pet rabbit and then come into a room to find the pet rabbit being eaten. The owner went mad with the dogs and threw one of them across the room breaking his leg (he said he was pulling it off the rabbit). He obviously thought that the dogs understood the rabbit was a pet and a "friend" etc. etc. I've also had a women bring me a new pet baby rabbit that had "collapsed". On questioning, it had keeled over when being sniffed by her dog. She said her rabbits and dogs wre always friends and seemed offended that I suggested the rabbit may be stressed. People in general as not very switched on.

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Cat Henstridge — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 15:10:51 GMT

Does anyone else have an issue with the breed?

These and the huskies are becoming more and more popular, the Malamute is one of the fastest growing breeds, in litters registered, with the KC and I am not sure they make a good family pet at all. Especially the Huskies who seem to go completely mad in normal home environments. The only ones I have ever seen that were relaxed and trustworthy lived on a farm and had the run of the whole place. I have even been told by several clients that breeders advise that they never go off the lead because they will run away!

In several of the articles the Malamute is described as a good family pet but that it is intelligent, powerfully built and difficult to train. So not a suitable family animal at all!

I know it is 'deed not breed' but if there was some sort of publicity campaign I would like to see a discussion of which breeds do, generally, make better family pets.

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 14:14:57 GMT

[/quote]I would question this assertion and would argue that domestic dogs instinctively know that a human baby is not a natural prey species and that the relationship between the parents and the child would reinforce the notion that child was part of its social group so the attacks are hierarchical or an aggressive response to pain rather than the chance of a meal.

I don't recall any of these reported attacks resulting in a human actually being even partly eaten apart from very rare occasions when a person has died and been left alone undiscovered for ages with a starving dog which became desperate.

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Utlendigur — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 14:04:28 GMT

[/quote]

Because they're not thinking from a dog's perspective...I'm pretty sure most of us have been confronted with an owner with a dog and bitch (or male and female cats) from the same litter who is aghast that the female is pregnant - "but they're brother and sister - they wouldn't do anything like that"

Re: Dogs attacking babies and children

Mark Holmes — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:49:40 GMT

Why anyone would thing that a dog would naturally understand a baby is a baby and NOT a small mewling snack is beyond me. You wouldn't leave a dog alone with a pet rabbit without expecting it. Why is a baby substantially different. (From a dog's perspective)