Well done, Denmark

Re: Well done, Denmark

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 16:46:45 GMT

This was discussed on Jeremy Vine BBC radio 2 today between 1230 and 1pm.

Re: Well done, Denmark

Richard Carter — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 18:28:37 GMT

Still not sure what the religious sticking point is about stunning prior to having the throat cut. The important part should be the prayers of thanks first and the complete bleeding out afterwards (and no pork lines in the same abattoir).

As previously mentioned South Africa, Australia and others that export into the Muslim world already have in place an agreement that was set up in the 60's or 70's that the rabbi or imam would bless/pray on the line and then the process would continue as normal. This meat is produced in world grade export abattoirs and marked both kosher and halal and nobody has a problem.

Accepted veterinary knowledge is stunning prior to slaughter is more humane. So under the animal welfare laws our first duty is to the animals and if the respective religions cannot get behind this, then the practice should be banned here as well and they can import the correctly labelled meat from somewhere else.

Re: Well done, Denmark

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 16:42:09 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

Whatever you feel about the necessity for such medical training, they are not used for target practice. The headline is a deliberate lie. One might also add that they are not "drugged", they are under general anaesthesia and are not permitted to wake up; they are euthanased.

And no shrapnel is involved as far as I can see.

[/quote]

Agree completely with the sentiment. However, having caught pedantry from you at an early age, I think the use of euthanasia in this context is wrong. "Killed humanely" might be better.

[/quote]

You are right. I wrote too hastily.

Re: Well done, Denmark

Malcolm Ness — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 08:40:20 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

And no shrapnel is involved as far as I can see.

[/quote]

Agree completely with the sentiment. However, having caught pedantry from you at an early age, I think the use of euthanasia in this context is wrong. "Killed humanely" might be better.

Re: Well done, Denmark

jd2008 — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 02:43:15 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

To Red Star man/woman

It's a fact that Denmark have flouted the EU request to improve welfare standards for pork, for years, something the UK industry have been adhering too for many years. By doing this the UK has been flooded with Danish bacon. So even though banning Halal slaughter should be applauded, maybe they should look at cleaning up their pig welfare.

Neil

[/quote]

And not just Denmark. Compliance with the ban on gestational crates is poor across the EU.

http://www.globalmeatnews.com/Industry-Markets/EU-countries-failing-to-comply-with-sow-stall-ban

Re: Well done, Denmark

jd2008 — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 02:39:27 GMT

[quote user="Braden Collins"]

Halal slaughter doesn't have to be cruel. There is Halal slaughter in Australia, but all animals must be stunned (captive bolt/mushroom head) so they are rendered immediately unconscious. I think the issue isn't so much religious slaughter as the need to stun animals prior to slaughter.

[/quote]

Sadly this isn't quite the full story. There is a loophole in Australia legislation allowing exemption from stunning.

The current law re stunning and slaughter

Slaughter standards in commercial abattoirs are dictated by the Australian Standard for the Hygienic Production of Meat and Meat Products for Human Consumption (AS 4696 — 2007), which requires that:

AS4696 — Slaughter —

7.09: Animals are slaughtered in a way that prevents unnecessary injury, pain and suffering to them and causes them the least practicable disturbance.

7.10: Before sticking commences animals are stunned in a way that ensures that the animals are unconscious and insensible to pain before sticking occurs and do not regain consciousness or sensibility before dying.

AS4696 — Ritual Slaughter —

7.12:
(1) This provision only applies to animals killed under an approved arrangement that provides for ritual slaughter involving sticking without prior stunning;
(2) An animal that is stuck without first being stunned and is not rendered unconscious as part of its ritual slaughter is stunned without delay after it is stuck to ensure that it is rendered unconscious.

Re: Well done, Denmark

Braden Collins — Wed, 19 Feb 2014 02:01:24 GMT

Re: Well done, Denmark

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 23:11:08 GMT

[quote user="Utlendigur"]

But watch your teeth on the shrapnel

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/ministry-of-defence-justifies-british-army-doctors-operating-on-pigs-which-are-drugged-and-used-as-target-practice-at-nato-facility-9136631.html

[/quote]

And no shrapnel is involved as far as I can see.

Re: Well done, Denmark

Tom Ward — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:36:40 GMT

If only there were some way of telling how your UK meat was slaughtered- some improved labelling needs bringing in, though I'm sure no supermarket wants the word 'slaughter' anywhere near their shelves. Incidentally it's a shame this good news from Denmark has come at the same time as Belgium decided to introduce child euthanasia :(

Re: Well done, Denmark

Utlendigur — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:11:22 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

Maybe we can swap them some pork then

Neil

[/quote]

But watch your teeth on the shrapnel

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/ministry-of-defence-justifies-british-army-doctors-operating-on-pigs-which-are-drugged-and-used-as-target-practice-at-nato-facility-9136631.html

Re: Well done, Denmark

Rob Reid — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:22:06 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

[/quote]

Just one of the many reasons why we should all buy British pork (same goes for other meat products as well) and indeed actively encourage everyone else to. Not to mention the fact that our bacon tastes far superior anyway!

Re: Well done, Denmark

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 20:44:22 GMT

To Red Star man/woman

Neil

Re: Well done, Denmark

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 20:26:14 GMT

[quote user="Mark Holmes"]Although you could argue they will now simply import the meat from countries with lower welfare standards and paradoxical end up eating meat of a poorer welfare standard.[/quote]

Maybe we can swap them some pork then

Neil

Re: Well done, Denmark

Mark Holmes — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 19:33:02 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Congratulations to Denmark for banning halal, and kosher slaughter

Wynne

[/quote] Although you could argue they will now simply import the meat from countries with lower welfare standards and paradoxical end up eating meat of a poorer welfare standard.

Re: Well done, Denmark

Rob Reid — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 18:44:21 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

Congratulations to Denmark for banning halal, and kosher slaughter

Wynne

[/quote]

Might make up for the bad publicity they're receiving about giraffes as well.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26167925

Doesn't the whale slaughter take place in the Faroe Isles? In which case I'm not sure how much say the Danes have as I think the Faroes are self-governing. Either way, it's horrible.

Re: Well done, Denmark

Hannah Wynne Richards — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 17:31:00 GMT

Total agreement

Wynne

Re: Well done, Denmark

Nigel Davies — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 17:26:14 GMT

Indeed, well done.

Bit of a shame that they allow the "cultural slaughter" of around 1,000 Pilot whales every year. though.

Nigel