VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 24 Feb 2014 14:19:25 GMT

[quote user="Elisa Best"]

good letter, Id be happy to back those sentiments. on the subject of letters to RCVS, is anything being done about our cert qualifications potentially being taken away?

[/quote]

This is really one for a new thread. There was some discussion on the SPVS list.

RCVS are looking at creating a middle tier of 'advanced practitioners'. For people who hold certificates. Similar idea to the recognised specialist list. The working party believe that the soft skills that now form the CertAVP A module are important (evidence based medicine, clinical audit) and if the existing (old style) certificate holders want to go on the list they will have 3 years to complete the new A module.There would be a small increase in the level of required CPD to 150 hours over the 3 years in the relavant subject/subjects. You could hold AP status in up to 3 disciplines.

Many existing cert holders not happy about that. They would still be allowed to use the letters after their name etc.

(I'm broadly in support of the idea as I know one cert holder that believes in personal views over any evidence to the contrary, who doesn't do half his or her required CPD requirement.)

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sun, 23 Feb 2014 09:07:16 GMT

Please don't think it am not aware of the numbers who have signed the petition , I referred to three hundred different pieces of written submission some of which have been written on behalf of many people such as the BSAVA response or the Vetsurgeon.org letter. I have no intention of underestimating the weight of your petition . Its great that you reached so many people and Of course I am aware of the numbers of signatures. The staff at the college have kept us informed as they received all the emails. I do understand the depth of feeling on this subject as I have been in practice for thirty six years , thirty of which I was in the on call rota . I look forward to meeting you at the meetings in March Jo and assure you I am listening as are the rest of Standards committee .Best wishes

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Jo Dyer — Sun, 23 Feb 2014 07:30:18 GMT

Hi Clare, thank you for publicly acknowledging our concerns. Please could you clarify how you arrived at your figure of 'over 300'? Every time someone signed the petition, an email would have been sent to 24-7 at RCVS, and there were around 2300 signatures at close of play on 17th Feb. Many thanks.

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sat, 22 Feb 2014 09:49:46 GMT

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to the request for views on OOH/24-7 We have had over three hundred replies and I am very impressed by the well thought out constructive views expressed. Thank you to everyone who took the time to contribute . I have been reading all the posts on here and know how important this issue is to everyone.

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

grumpyoldman — Fri, 21 Feb 2014 04:35:37 GMT

Nothing there to really disagree with , possibly not far enough in one or two places for me personally ,but when dealing with politicians is probably wise not to call a spade a bloody shovel and irritate them too much

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

David Mills — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:44:27 GMT

[quote user="Elisa Best"]our cert qualifications potentially being taken away?[/quote]

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 21:06:21 GMT

[quote user="Mike Priest"]The worries about home visits extend to normal hours as well - how can you leave a busy evening surgery of sick animals to attend a single animal? as I'm sure the DC would then say you failed in your obligations if a patient in the clinic died while waiting for you to return from the visit[/quote]

That is where your professional judgement comes in. No one expects you to rush out of a busy practice to anything except a dire emergency. However, a waiting room full of dogs waiting for their boosters is no reason not to attend an entrapment...... It is impossible to legislate for the many different scenarios. This is why (I think) there still has to be a requirement to visit when necessary, while having the confidence that the PIC will throw out an unreasonable complaint (as it shouldn't even get to DC if you can, and do, explain your reasons for refusal.)

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Mike Priest — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 20:44:46 GMT

Hi Arlo, first class letter, glad to support its sentiments, only comment is if code is changed, need to retain or improve on the phrasing about not needing to do visits at risk of life or limb. I know this largely applies to certain unpleasant inner city areas where theft of drugs may be a reason for a false visit request but lets not forget the case of Susie Lamplugh, especially as the proportion of female vets increases. The worries about home visits extend to normal hours as well - how can you leave a busy evening surgery of sick animals to attend a single animal? as I'm sure the DC would then say you failed in your obligations if a patient in the clinic died while waiting for you to return from the visit, regards, Mike Priest

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Andre Escudeiro-Vieites — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 20:31:28 GMT

Agree. Good letter Arlo.

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Evangelia Maniaki — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 20:10:25 GMT

Another typo: Number 2, paragraph 2 'signatures' instead of 'signatories'.

On the more important note of the letter, thank you again for taking all our views into account and composing it!

Replying to two things that were said by fellow members:

- It was said that "changing the emphasis of the Code would give practitioners greater confidence to refuse a home visit when they genuinely believe that the animal's interests would be better served at the practice, and quite possibly that the owner is just taking advantage of them". In my humble opinion, the animal's interest would almost -always- be better served in the practice and there are few exceptions to this rule. Of course, every one of us chooses to do a visit sometimes even if the animal could be transported to the practice, i.e. old lady that doesn't drive, has a few orthopedic issues and two cats that need their boosters, but each on his own.

- As far as the probability of being called by another client while on a OOH visit, my opinion is that you can never know and you must always assume that there is a chance you will indeed receive another call. I have had nights when I didn't have one single call and others when the phone would ring every hour while working at the same practice, therefore 'maintaining' the same OOH workload. Therefore, unless a second vet on call protocol is in place, the reason to deny a visit if it can wait until tomorrow or if the owner can try and bring the animal down at the practice is always valid.

My two cents.

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Elisa Best — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 18:57:10 GMT

good letter, Id be happy to back those sentiments. on the subject of letters to RCVS, is anything being done about our cert qualifications potentially being taken away?

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 17:58:10 GMT

Thank you all again so much for the feedback. Useful, obviously, but also rewarding to feel that I've done an OK job.

I'd also like to thank all of YOU that posted in the forums on this subject. Without it, there would have been no letter!

I'm going to submit it officially tomorrow (not before changing 'than' to 'that', Mike!). A couple of things you should all know:

I am reassured that the the College knows the letter is representative of lots of views. I am convinced that it will have the appropriate weight attached to it.
The Committee extended its deadline in order for me to be able to complete the submission and get your approval. It would hardly do that if it didn't plan to read it! But anyway, some members of the Committee are members of this site and have already seen it. I've also had a very nicely worded acknowledgement of it from one. So I think you can be confident that the letter will be read by those who matter.

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 16:54:09 GMT

Very good letter.

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Ellen Harmer — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 16:22:50 GMT

Thank you. I'm happy to support your letter. Puts the points across very succinctly.

Cheers, Ellen

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Linda Salmon — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 14:59:25 GMT

Hi Arlo,

Your letter is just right, putting the case very clearly.

Please add my support.

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Mike Dale — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 14:40:39 GMT

Hi Arlo

Looks good to me - sound summary of opinion and concern translated into reasonable criticisms and constructive suggestion.

Small typo - para 4 - "in order than" to "in order that." (sorry journalist in me!)

Be interested to see response.

Mike

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

morven shaw — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 14:26:38 GMT

Thanks for taking the time to write this letter on behalf of your members and i agree with the content.

The solution to this problem is not straightforward but i hope the RCVS at least recognises that the code wording needs amended to remove the implication that visits are compulsory in an increasingly intensifying veterinary small animal sector (surely this is affecting others too) (e.g ooh in the practice i work for now has one ooh vet covering the same area previously covered by two separate practices which have been amalgamated to try and reduce the provision of ooh care as a financial burden. Hence we have many more inpatients as well as more ooh calls making visits occasionally much more difficult to perform without compromising the care of patients already admitted) .

Whilst we will always strive to provide visits when necessary and when asked for, I would like not to be basing my decision on whether to visit or not on whether i will be struck off. Which also leads to the point about lack of confidence in the RCVS DC.

Many thanks again Arlo your efforts have not gone unappreciated!

Morven

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Pilar Martinez-Abarca — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 14:26:32 GMT

Thanks for this, Arlo; very well written letter. I couldn´t agree more. How long will the RCVS go on ignoring the unfair stress they are causing to so many members of the profession? Best wishes and well done.

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Mark Holmes — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 14:02:45 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="Alison Skipper"]Thank you for writing this, Arlo, and I hope it is effective. Just one tiny pedantic typo - I think you mean "that" rather than "than" in the fourth line, just before the first subheading.[/quote]

Pleasure is all mine (very rewardingly positive feedback, I probably wouldn't feel quite the same if you all said it was a crock of you-know-what)

Yeah - I spotted that typo after uploading the file, but thanks anyway for pointing out.

[/quote] Always the case you spot typos after you have sent the letter, emailed the letter or indeed received £1000 of leaflets you had printed.

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Mark Gordon — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:57:25 GMT

I feel that Solution 1. is the neatest, clearest way forward; of huge benefit to the vet in practice whilst leaving the service to the public undiminished.

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Ruth Eyre-Pugh — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:50:50 GMT

Good letter Arlo.

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:33:30 GMT

Pleasure is all mine (very rewardingly positive feedback, I probably wouldn't feel quite the same if you all said it was a crock of you-know-what)

Yeah - I spotted that typo after uploading the file, but thanks anyway for pointing out.

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

rhona kerr — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:13:51 GMT

Hi Arlo, I think you have covered it very nicely. Hope they read and pay attention!

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Gareth C. — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:13:04 GMT

Visits are mandatory if you want to be in the practice standards scheme as you are not allowed to have a practice policy that precludes them. Ask vets now about it...

Re: VetSurgeon contribution to RCVS 24/7 emergency cover consultation

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:00:22 GMT

[quote user="Tim Mainland"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

I think a bit late for this particular letter. I have to send it in soon, and I'd need to find somewhere that provides that service, set it up, then email everyone again.

Perhaps simpler for anyone who reads this thread and supports the letter to email: 24-7@rcvs.org.uk and just state briefly that they support the letter sent (or about to be, anyway) by Vetsurgeon.org (then again, perhaps not a good idea, because it'll only be those that read this post, and the RCVS may take that to mean that everyone else disagrees!)

[quote user="George Cooper"]Hi Arlo A terrific effort on our behalf[/quote]

Thanks George. Good to hear from you. Been a while.

[/quote]

Arlo,

According to rcvs.org the dealine for submissions has passed on Monday 17th

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/news-and-events/news/call-for-evidence-on-provision-of-24-hour-emergency-veterinary/

Has this been extended?

Tim

[/quote]

Good point. They gave me an extension to submit my letter specifically.