pet food program on channel 5 now

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Rob Loxley — Wed, 05 Feb 2014 17:21:58 GMT

[quote user="Cat Henstridge"]they have a huge advertising presence[/quote]

[quote user="Cat Henstridge"]I contacted Royal Canin who gave me information on how they formulate and manufacture their diets. The level of care they take is seriously impressive[/quote]

Are you sure Royal Canin/ Hills etc. are not trying to "brainwash" the veterinary profession to a degree? But I'm not sure the RMB'ers or other food evangelists are always much different.

Pet food companies may spend a lot on advertising to the general public, but they also spend a huge amount of time, money and effort to get vets and VNs to push their products.

[quote user="Cat Henstridge"]stick to the premium brands[/quote]

I'm afraid I agree that just choosing your petfood on the basis of price and brand positioning seems somewhat lacking

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 05 Feb 2014 01:06:21 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]How do you sleep at night? [/quote]

http://youtu.be/GO0JaecRWy0

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

David Mills — Wed, 05 Feb 2014 00:03:08 GMT

[quote user="Richard Allport"]

Cordially

Richard

[/quote]

How do you sleep at night?

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Richard Allport — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 23:35:08 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

[quote user="Richard Allport"]Aw, shucks, Gillian, you're so kind. I'm too modest to say how good I am, but there - you've said it for me. I'm definitely going to have to increase my fees now![/quote]

When one is morally destitute enough to pray on others' ignorance and emotions, the whole world is a laughing matter.

[/quote]

Calm down, dear, it's only a little light hearted banter. But my morals are a wee bit upset by your remark and challenge your morals to a duel at dawn. I'm also reminded of why I gave up posting on vetsurgeon many moons ago and why I shall not be wasting any more time on it again.

Cordially

Richard

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

David Mills — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 23:13:23 GMT

When one is morally destitute enough to pray on others' ignorance and emotions, the whole world is a laughing matter.

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 23:11:22 GMT

[quote user="Richard Allport"]Aw, shucks, Gillian, you're so kind.[/quote]

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Richard Allport — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 23:10:19 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Richard must be good- a consultation with him is £180.

Even a telephone consultation is £135. Although he obviously wouldn't be able to dispense a medicine. Oh, wait, he never dispenses any medicines, just herbs or sugar water, so that's ok then!

[/quote]

Aw, shucks, Gillian, you're so kind. I'm too modest to say how good I am, but there - you've said it for me. I'm definitely going to have to increase my fees now!

Richard

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Richard Allport — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 23:02:42 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Wow, just wow:

Richard Allport, for acupuncture, homoeopathy, flower therapy and herbal medicine.

Richard Allport, qualified as a veterinary surgeon from the Royal Veterinary College, London, UK in 1973. After ten years as a veterinary surgeon in general practice, he began to specialise in holistic medicines. In July 1996 he opened the NMC as a referral centre for pets, offering treatments with acupuncture, homoeopathy, flower essences and herbal medicine for pets. Richard is a past president of the British Association of Homoeopathic Veterinary Surgeons, and holds the qualification of Veterinary Member o the Faculty of Homoeopathy (VetMFHom). He is a member of the Association of British Veterinary Acupuncturists, and the European Herbal Veterinary Medical Association. Richard has written several books on natural medicines for pets, writes regular columns in Dogs Today and Cat World magazines, and has appeared regularly on radio and TV programmes.

http://www.naturalmedicinecentre.co.uk/index.php/our-staff/pet-therapists

If you have a strong bladder sphincter tone download the referral form.

[/quote]

Thanks for the plug, Michael, much appreciated!

Richard

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Richard Allport — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 22:57:58 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

I do, however, give Richard 10/10 for bravery. Kneeling next to a growling Rottie shows bravery. (Or stupidity?)

[/quote]

Not so brave really, 'Dizzee Rascal' was the gentlest, sweetest Rottie known to man and had had several sessions of acupuncture before without any problems. She was only restless because of the cameras and lights. Rather her than a man eating Jack Russell Terrier! Huge improvement in mobilty and comfort with the acupuncture by the way.

Richard

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Richard Allport — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 22:51:56 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

At least I can now put a face to Richard Allport.

Just not looking forward to explaining to my clients why all their pet's ills won't be cured by raw diet.

Oh, and all the behavioural issues that lead to dogs ending up abandoned in kennels could be prevented by feeding raw. Who would have known.

[/quote]

Gillian, I hope it didn't come as too much of a shock to see my face - I've had 63 years to get used to it and I still get a nasty surprise when I look in the mirror sometimes. I asked my wife how she thought I came over on the programme and she simply said 'You'd have looked better with a paper bag over your head.'

Richard

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

No Name — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 13:54:53 GMT

My personal opinion about the programme was that it seemed to be weighted more on very differing opinions (and some myths/anecdotes) than solid facts (although, not sure what I was expecting when I know evidence is lacking). I was particularly annoyed by the comments made by producers that vets are brainwashed by dog food companies or earn lots of commission from selling pet food. I used to always think vets were well respected but now I am beginning to be more aware about scepticism of our profession which is something we don't need.

As for cheap vs more expensive commercial dog food, on an anecdotal basis, the premium stuff seems more palatable to our lurcher, she has less flatulence when she switched from the cheap stuff to more expensive food and it's obviously more digestible so a bit more convenient for me when out on walks! My mum would always spend a bit more on good quality burgers vs value ones so I think we expect for some of the more expensive dog products to have put more money into research / quality when buying more expensive dog food.

As for the RMB diet... I don't think I'd want a dog dragging a raw bone across the house floor like that dog on the programme... aside from other risks and no long term proven benefits. Although, interestingly, we are having an optional talk on the RMB diet at University for all of us vet students. Will attend but wonder if it will be balanced or not...

On another note, does anyone know where you can find recipes for owners wanting to cook their own food which would be a balanced diet? Some of my family members cook food specifically for there dog. They normally use cooked tripe/mince, rice and mixed veg in roughly equal quantities. Or would you assume the diet is OK if the dog is not showing clinical signs of deficiencies and seems well in itself ? Just wondering if anyone had any ideas (still a vet student and I don't really know :P )

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 03 Feb 2014 10:19:15 GMT

[quote user="Wren"]

I'm afraid I'm another of the 'cheap food' brigade.

All our dogs - farm and gundogs initially, pet dogs now - have been fed on cheap 15kg bags (Supadog or Wagg usually) from the agricultural merchants with kitchen scraps added. I had to laugh when my old boss (a Hills fanatic and dog breeder) complimented my dog's coat and condition and asked what I fed. Her face was a picture! She still tried to convert me and tell me that Hills would be cheaper in the long run, but I fail to see how, when I was paying about £13 for a 15kg bag, compared to nearly £50 for the Hills. You'd need to have fed the dogs a teaspoon of Hills a day to match the price!

Our local foxhound pack live on donated leftovers from a local cheap petfood factory (one of the ones mentioned in this thread) supplemented with a bit of tripe from the abattoir and they are the fittest dogs for miles around and cover 20-25miles three times a week in the hunting season.

All of which is, obviously, anecdote and not evidence. But it's sufficient for me to keep doing as I've always done. I feel grateful that my job doesn't entail having to 'sell' (use whatever term you like) premium or prescription brand dogfood to clients. I suspect I'd find it very hard to toe the party line in the face of my personal experience.

[/quote]

The only reason I object to feeding tripe to dogs is that it's lovely stuff and I don't like sharing! :) (makes an absolutely divine stew!)

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Glen McIntosh — Mon, 03 Feb 2014 10:16:28 GMT

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]It reads as rather pompous and patronising.[/quote]

Preceded by:

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]I assume that what you have written us an attempt at humour.[/quote]

Followed by:

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]I am able to read and interpret written English.[/quote]

Well, it appears that you should know Malcolm.

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Wren — Mon, 03 Feb 2014 09:19:29 GMT

I'm afraid I'm another of the 'cheap food' brigade.

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 02 Feb 2014 22:58:51 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Is it a great secret you can't just find out and tell us?

[/quote]

Who knows? it might be considered commercially sensitive by her employers, and posting stuff like that on forums has gotten people fired, can't blame Gudi for being careful. You probably wouldn't post your suppliers and trade practices on a forum either, would you? Be nice, she's new here and nobody ever died of politeness.

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 02 Feb 2014 22:27:35 GMT

Is it a great secret you can't just find out and tell us?

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Gudi Stuttard — Sun, 02 Feb 2014 22:18:58 GMT

It's certainly clear that many of us in the industry could do a lot more to communicate our science and ethos directly to vets. It's really very interesting to hear everyone's opinions on here. John - the meat is indeed EU-sourced but the RC Helpline (0800717800) can give you much more precise information about raw material sourcing, sustainability and ethical policies. Please do call or email.

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 02 Feb 2014 20:54:58 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]I know what you mean about 'dubious' meat. Over the years I have eaten a few mechanically reclaimed meat hotdogs and I'm still here. I also love haggis and I believe the main things in there are lung and heart..............[/quote]

You misunderstand me Michael - I also agree that all these meat products will 'feed' you - insomuch as they contain various amounts of animal protein and aren't 'harmful'. I also like haggis - but I have no problem eating heart and lung. But MRM - urgh! And value burgers contain fat, collagen, concentrated animal protein powders (shipped around the world from who knows where) made from hide and other unpleasant offcuts. Calling them 'meat' is generous.

I'll stick to meat which has its ingredients listed.... the same as I do with my pet's food!

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Kate Richardson — Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:54:10 GMT

Not discounting that some diets are better quality than others, but to my mind the biggest problem especially in dogs is not what they eat but how much. I have seen plenty of elderly/geriatric dogs and cats fed all types of diet and I cannot honestly say I have a feeling that one brand of diet influences longevity more than another. One could play devils advocate and say that a poorer quality diet may be beneficial if less likely to cause obesity! as I would say this is probably one of, if not, THE major factor affecting longevity. Do people feel that obesity is related to particluar diets or is it more due to particular owners who may be the type of owners to buy particular diets, and whatever diet they feed their animal will be overweight? I feel most 'guide lines' on packets OVER estimate what the anmial needs on a daily basis- the cynical part of me thinks this is for commercial reasons- ie if they eat more they buy more. A lot of owners unfortunately don't recognise that these are GUIDELINES to amounts to feed and feel that if they give less they are are being cruel to their pet and underfeeding it- and are very relieved when you tell them they can feed less without it being a matter for the animal cruelty police!

Cats are a different matter entirely- there is a lot of discussion about this subject with respect to the protein:carbohydrate levels and also about wet versus dry diets versus raw/natural diets. I am not going to go into that discussion, but I would say that I believe a totally dry diet is inappropriate for cats, and the premium diets regardless of where they are sold, tend to be mainly the dry diets, I know they have wet forms available, but how often are they promoted over the convenient dry food? So can we honestly say that the premium diets are better for our pets??

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

John Flynn — Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:05:31 GMT

Hi Gudi,

Can you reassure me that you promote good animal welfare and that the source of animal products in your pet foods is independently verified to come from farms well-above the average when it comes to welfare standards? Or at the very least reassure me that the meat source is UK/EU based in its entirety and this can be independently verified?

Can you reassure me that you place a high importance on habitat support for animals and this can be substantiated by claims, for instance, on the sustainability of any fish source in your products?

Many thanks,

John

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Malcolm Ness — Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:44:10 GMT

[quote user="Cat Henstridge"]There are clear differences in quality between [/quote]

I am not being disingenuous, I simply don't understand how this claim can be made - I have asked (in my first post on this thread) to be pointed to some evidence, any evidence to support it. Should any be proffered, then I will look at it and I might change my view.

[quote user="Cat Henstridge"]

[quote user="Malcolm Ness"]Cat, you are accusing me of "buying into a conspiracy theory" (offensive and ludicrously emotive language, by the way).[/quote]

No, I was not.

[/quote]

I disagree with what you wrote. The suggestion that the products of Royal Canin are de facto superior to those of Pedigree, Purina and Iams is, to my mind, incredible. If the defamatory "conspiracy theory" statement is not a swipe at those who disagree with you, why was it written and precisely who was it aimed at?

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

David Mills — Sun, 02 Feb 2014 00:29:40 GMT

[quote user="Gudi Stuttard"]Hi all. I don't usually wade into forums but I saw Cat was getting a bit of stick here. It was me who she spoke to at Royal Canin[/quote]

Oh dear. I hope you brought your colander. This isn't going to end well.

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 01 Feb 2014 23:19:18 GMT

[quote user="Gudi Stuttard"]Super premium foods differ from supermarket foods in many ways, including digestibility, palatability, consistency (being fixed formula), degree of tailoring to individual needs and, most importantly, extra health claims.[/quote]

Tesco sells Iams. I believe they would independently make those same claims.

If your goal is to help as many pets as possible, wouldn't getting your food into all the major supermarkets increase your market share significantly? Or do you create an artificial monopoly (can only get via the vet) so that vets recommend your products?

[quote user="Gudi Stuttard"]Talking to the profession, I would say that our main challenge is convincing owners to feed wholly prepared pet food on the first place - a huge proportion of the calories consumed by dogs and cats in the uk come from human foods.[/quote]

To my mind I am not going to throw out perfectly good food leftovers - the dog can have them (and she enjoys them). So long as you don't feed the normal portion of dog food AND extras there is not a problem.There's always a bit of grisly meat or crunchy lasagne corner that otherwise would go to landfill.

[quote user="Gudi Stuttard"]our choice of what food to feed a perfectly healthy pet in our kennels or cattery perhaps wouldn't reflect our ideal choice for long term feeding of our own pet at home.. Would it?[/quote]

Nutrition is vitally important for animal's recovery. I'd be massively disappointed being in hospital getting health advice and then MacDonalds brought everyone's lunch around. I wouldn't feed inpatients anything that I wouldn't feed my own dog.

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Gudi Stuttard — Sat, 01 Feb 2014 23:05:51 GMT

Hi all. I don't usually wade into forums but I saw Cat was getting a bit of stick here. It was me who she spoke to at Royal Canin and I would like to say - all commercially prepared complete pet food will provide perfectly adequate nutrition providing for basic nutritional requirements, and is safe too, made from human grade ingredients and with strict legislation governing their production. But the brands at the top of the market we are not in the supermarkets) are aiming to do more, to use all available scientific knowledge to make their diets to support dogs and cats in optimum health. Going beyond basic. We do use scientific evidence for what we do. I am sorry there are no trials to refer to to claim that one brand makes dogs healthier and live longer than another. It just doesn't happen in pet food because these are not medicines. Things are not that black and white, and actually our claims are very different. Super premium foods differ from supermarket foods in many ways, including digestibility, palatability, consistency (being fixed formula), degree of tailoring to individual needs and, most importantly, extra health claims. We can't make these claims without being able to substantiate them, either through feeding trials or existing scientific evidence. We believe this makes a difference overall to pets. It's not that only we are great and that others are rubbish. It's that we are all different degrees of being great! And I truly believe we are the best! Cat made some brilliant points in her article. Talking to the profession, I would say that our main challenge is convincing owners to feed wholly prepared pet food on the first place - a huge proportion of the calories consumed by dogs and cats in the uk come from human foods. But of course we should advise what we believe to be the best. A couple of other points - we don't use colourings because they are not necessary, although there is nothing to suggest they are a problem. Pedigree/whiskas and Royal Canin might be owned by the same company but we are not the same ( they are good choices in the supermarket by the way). And our choice of what food to feed a perfectly healthy pet in our kennels or cattery perhaps wouldn't reflect our ideal choice for long term feeding of our own pet at home.. Would it?

Re: pet food program on channel 5 now

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 01 Feb 2014 22:29:54 GMT

I know what you mean about 'dubious' meat. Over the years I have eaten a few mechanically reclaimed meat hotdogs and I'm still here. I also love haggis and I believe the main things in there are lung and heart..............